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Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

I was actually thinking the same driving down an empty 16th Ave one night last week.

Allowing street parking is one of the best ways to improve pedestrian friendliness, increase streetfront retail viability, and improve the general vibrancy of a streetscape - and it's completely free! The speed limit is already 50, so I don't think it would need to be any lower, as the existence of on-street parking would help to cut-down on the amount of speeding that occurs.

The same should be done on all of the major avenues downtown - namely 4th, 5th, 6th, and 9th.
 
I was actually thinking the same driving down an empty 16th Ave one night last week.

Allowing street parking is one of the best ways to improve pedestrian friendliness, increase streetfront retail viability, and improve the general vibrancy of a streetscape - and it's completely free! The speed limit is already 50, so I don't think it would need to be any lower, as the existence of on-street parking would help to cut-down on the amount of speeding that occurs.

The same should be done on all of the major avenues downtown - namely 4th, 5th, 6th, and 9th.
I think you're right, for some reason i had in my head that the speed limit was 60km/h. 50 is fine, wouldn't need to be lower.
 
On street parking is already available on the major avenues downtown, just not during peak hour. Perhaps this is a similar approach that could be taken for 16th, kind of what was done with Edmonton trail about 10 years ago.

One concern or conflict I can see being raised is, we just spent a not insignificant amount of money on things like queue jumps for the Max Orange route on 16th, will all that be lost with the lane reduction? Maybe if it is off peak hours it won't make a difference.
 
Allowing street parking is one of the best ways to improve pedestrian friendliness, increase streetfront retail viability, and improve the general vibrancy of a streetscape - and it's completely free! The speed limit is already 50, so I don't think it would need to be any lower, as the existence of on-street parking would help to cut-down on the amount of speeding that occurs.
I have no problem with on-street parking.

Places with on street parking
- 10th st NW/ Kensington Road - check
-17th ave SW - check
-4th street sw - check
-1st ave Bridgeland - check
-9th ave Inglewood - check
-The best parts of 33rd ave SW, or Centre Street N - check
 
On street parking is already available on the major avenues downtown, just not during peak hour. Perhaps this is a similar approach that could be taken for 16th, kind of what was done with Edmonton trail about 10 years ago.

One concern or conflict I can see being raised is, we just spent a not insignificant amount of money on things like queue jumps for the Max Orange route on 16th, will all that be lost with the lane reduction? Maybe if it is off peak hours it won't make a difference.
I think parking off peak hours would probably work. If I'm not mistaken, 10th street NW has no parking on the east side during peak hours.
 
On street parking is already available on the major avenues downtown, just not during peak hour. Perhaps this is a similar approach that could be taken for 16th, kind of what was done with Edmonton trail about 10 years ago.

One concern or conflict I can see being raised is, we just spent a not insignificant amount of money on things like queue jumps for the Max Orange route on 16th, will all that be lost with the lane reduction? Maybe if it is off peak hours it won't make a difference.
I think the on-street parking could be added without significant conflict, it wouldn't be considerably different than Broadway in Vancouver (although i would prefer it to be more traffic-calmed than Broadway, having lived directly on that street). There would still be two free-flowing traffic lanes and left turn bays (which are not common on Broadway).

I also would like to see the City stop lane-reversing and continue to allow on-street parking on 10th Street NW, 9th Avenue and Centre Street, and on all streets and avenues in the Downtown and Beltline during peak hours. Main Streets should be capturing commuters on the way home, not turning the community into a temporary freeway where no one can stop and park for dinner/coffee/shopping, etc. That could be the busiest time for businesses and would force drivers to route to actual arterials if they want to speed home to the suburbs.
 
I think the challenge is, the main streets are also doubling as the main commuter arterial given the layout of our city. No real alternative to 16th Avenue, unless you go quite a ways north to John Laurie Boulevard/McKnight. The only mainstreet I can think of that doesn't double as a main car connection is 1st Ave in Bridgeland.

Not saying the car should be what the driving design factor is, but it does highlight the challenge. For instance, the plan to drop a lane from 9th Ave SE in Inglewood (I think this is still the plan, but not sure, plannign in Inglewood always seems to be shifting/changing) would severely hamper the travel times for the Max Purple, a bus line we spend $180 million on with the 17th Ave SE and Deerfoot crossing with the entire intent of speeding up the travel times.....
 
I think the challenge is, the main streets are also doubling as the main commuter arterial given the layout of our city. No real alternative to 16th Avenue, unless you go quite a ways north to John Laurie Boulevard/McKnight. The only mainstreet I can think of that doesn't double as a main car connection is 1st Ave in Bridgeland.

Not saying the car should be what the driving design factor is, but it does highlight the challenge. For instance, the plan to drop a lane from 9th Ave SE in Inglewood (I think this is still the plan, but not sure, plannign in Inglewood always seems to be shifting/changing) would severely hamper the travel times for the Max Purple, a bus line we spend $180 million on with the 17th Ave SE and Deerfoot crossing with the entire intent of speeding up the travel times.....
With the MAX Purple, there is a plan to integrate it with the Green Line in someway that it doesn't use 9th Ave in Inglewood I'm assuming. Based on the recent Route Ahead update, there is a planned transitway extension from the Blackfoot Truck stop to Downtown. How that looks? I have no clue.

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I think the challenge is, the main streets are also doubling as the main commuter arterial given the layout of our city. No real alternative to 16th Avenue, unless you go quite a ways north to John Laurie Boulevard/McKnight. The only mainstreet I can think of that doesn't double as a main car connection is 1st Ave in Bridgeland.

Not saying the car should be what the driving design factor is, but it does highlight the challenge. For instance, the plan to drop a lane from 9th Ave SE in Inglewood (I think this is still the plan, but not sure, plannign in Inglewood always seems to be shifting/changing) would severely hamper the travel times for the Max Purple, a bus line we spend $180 million on with the 17th Ave SE and Deerfoot crossing with the entire intent of speeding up the travel times.....
There is a long term project to bring in Max Purple for an (I believe) forced transfer at the Inglewood Greenline station. The exclusive ROW saves enough time to make up for the forced transfer.

Edit: the above, they ranked all of the projects in isolation. To enter downtown, the max purple was to share the ROW with SETWAY-Greenline as I understand it. Extension beyond 12th is a bit of a Zombie project.
 
Makes sense. I have always figured that once the MAX Purple is upgraded to the Purple Line (Ctrain) it will interline with the Green Line at Inglewood Station. Before through the inner city likely to Bowness.
 
Given the number of empty parking lots around the Beltline I’d be totally fine with 6 storey wood frame. We already have a large number of high-rises, it would be nice to fill The Beltline with more mid and low rises.
What should the parking ratio be for such a building in the beltline. Mostly 1 bedroom units.
 
What should the parking ratio be for such a building in the beltline. Mostly 1 bedroom units.
This is only my opinion, but I think it should be up to the developer. If the developer feels they can sell units in a 100 unit proposal that has only 40 parking spots, let them. Same deal if they want to build 120 parking spaces in a 100 unit building (as long as they're below ground) I think consumer should have the choice. I know 5 people (outside of this forum) who live in the Beltline/Lower Mount Royal and three of them don't have cars.

The argument against developments with limited or no parking is that the residents with cars will take up all the street parking, but there really isn't a convenient way to do that unless you're prepared to continually move your car around. During the day almost all streets are either 2 or 3 hour parking, and half of those are pay spots. After hours most street spots are free, but some aren't free until after 6:00pm, some aren't until after 9:00pm. It means that every day you'd have to arrive home later or go pick up your car, and then come back and try and find a spot near your residence. It's not workable long term, and people with cars will go to a development with parking spaces. Those who don't have a car can chose places without parking, and those in theory should be cheaper.
 
I think the challenge is, the main streets are also doubling as the main commuter arterial given the layout of our city. No real alternative to 16th Avenue, unless you go quite a ways north to John Laurie Boulevard/McKnight. The only mainstreet I can think of that doesn't double as a main car connection is 1st Ave in Bridgeland.

Not saying the car should be what the driving design factor is, but it does highlight the challenge. For instance, the plan to drop a lane from 9th Ave SE in Inglewood (I think this is still the plan, but not sure, plannign in Inglewood always seems to be shifting/changing) would severely hamper the travel times for the Max Purple, a bus line we spend $180 million on with the 17th Ave SE and Deerfoot crossing with the entire intent of speeding up the travel times.....
It certainly is a challenge. I see the car-throughput capacity v. local development balance being really a question about what lands should be benefitting - the immediate local development land or the distance car-oriented ones.

With few exceptions, Calgary has typically chosen to benefit the driver and car-throughput over local land activity. Car infrastructure benefits the longer commutes the most, as temporary congestion improvements from road and highway expansions brings outlying areas "closer". Essentially we are discounting local lands to benefit lands far away.

The most obvious part of this trade-off is physical space - road expansion take a lot of it, often where it is higher value due to it's centrality in the overall city. Every bit of land set aside for future expansion and every plot expropriated is a loss of property tax into the future permanently. Even if the land is never needed and it's decided to give it back to development, many remnant parcels set aside for roadway expansion or setbacks become unusable because of the weird shapes, sizes and accesses created from the road expansion. 16 Avenue and most arterials have countless examples of land inefficiently allocated for past or future expansions to the detriment of local development potential.

The second trade-off comes the road operations and planning rules - banning street parking to promote car-throughput is a small but real disadvantage of any business that may choose to set up there. Throw in setback requirements, parking rules, access ramps and circulation requirements - all sized for vehicles - and we've further tipped the scales of what is possible and what isn't on any particular site by adding costs to development and geometric constraints to sites. These start preventing what types of development from occurring and types of businesses from locating there.

Beyond that, the general unpleasantness of wider, louder, dirtier and faster roads indirectly influences the whole process to local detriment. It becomes harder for anyone to imagine repurposing space. Harder for communities or businesses to propose something different. Easier to dream up another road expansion to de-bottleneck the next junction, a project that wouldn't have existed if only we had resisted de-bottlenecking the first.

As an aside - you mentioned one of the weirder quirks of Calgary Transit I noticed about Calgary Transit. CT has often been a supporter of highway and roadway expansion, which is almost unheard of for a transit agency. On the surface, it seems like that might make sense like the Max Purple example or some of the joint LRT/Crowchild/Bow Trail expansion projects where hypothetical synergies exist. But Transit's support of road expansion is a penny wise, pound foolish gamble where they ultimately lose. CT is a chicken cutting a set of keys to the hen house for the fox, in hopes the door might be left open sometimes for their convenience.

Sure preventing traffic calming and on-street patios in Inglewood may speed your buses up temporarily , but you are actively cutting down development potential and attractiveness of the most transit supportive areas. In the long run, supporting car-capacity projects undermines transit altogether - all ground is ceded to marginally increase the value of low, low-density, car-oriented spaces in which transit can't compete. Big picture - it makes no sense for Calgary Transit to support car-orientation of anything, that is their only competitor! Calgary Transit should vocally be opposing all poor land use, be against all highway expansion etc.

In conclusion - cars, parking and arterial roadways are all useful and necessary things. In many areas these should be prioritized. There's always room to tweak then, make them run more efficiently and ensure they are safe (e.g. fiddle with signal timing, avoid weird merges etc.) But for the relatively small area of the inner city where the local development can actually achieve a greater outcome, we need to be far more aggressive in flipping the balance fully in favour of local development over car-throughput.
 
This is only my opinion, but I think it should be up to the developer. If the developer feels they can sell units in a 100 unit proposal that has only 40 parking spots, let them. Same deal if they want to build 120 parking spaces in a 100 unit building (as long as they're below ground) I think consumer should have the choice. I know 5 people (outside of this forum) who live in the Beltline/Lower Mount Royal and three of them don't have cars.

The argument against developments with limited or no parking is that the residents with cars will take up all the street parking, but there really isn't a convenient way to do that unless you're prepared to continually move your car around. During the day almost all streets are either 2 or 3 hour parking, and half of those are pay spots. After hours most street spots are free, but some aren't free until after 6:00pm, some aren't until after 9:00pm. It means that every day you'd have to arrive home later or go pick up your car, and then come back and try and find a spot near your residence. It's not workable long term, and people with cars will go to a development with parking spaces. Those who don't have a car can chose places without parking, and those in theory should be cheaper.
Good insight. I should have been specific and said rental building. Not for sale condo. Same logic for a rental also?
 

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