Roads, Highways & Infrastructure

[Surrealplaces]

Pyongyang’s system is definitely not more modern than Calgary’s. Not by a long shot. It’s only underground, if that’s the definition of “more modern” that is an incorrect assertion.

That's true, for the most part all of it's older than Calgary's system. Their livery is old Russian cars, iirc, but it is a surprisingly good system in a country where the average person is dirt poor. Although given North Korea is a communist dictatorship I guess it's not a good example, but it does point out how even the poorest countries can do a decent system if they put their priorities to it.

 

[Tarsus]

This is an average subway station in Taiwan (technically a third world country)...

https://imgur.com/a/HUfsJA4

Surreal places covered it best, it’s not a case of wealth but where that wealth has been focused. Calgary and the other major cities in Canada are wealthy cities by world standards. I don’t agree with all of the ways the wealth has been put to use, but Calgary’s a wealthy city nonetheless.

 

[CBBarnett]

Surreal places covered it best, it’s not a case of wealth but where that wealth has been focused. Calgary and the other major cities in Canada are wealthy cities by world standards. I don’t agree with all of the ways the wealth has been put to use, but Calgary’s a wealthy city nonetheless.

Almost every city listed in Surreal's post of cities with metros also include substantial toll road infrastructure on many major highways, both between and within these major cities. Many also have some form of congestion pricing and market-based parking schemes - all are attempts to capture the costs caused by private cars and congestion which we don't bother to do here. That's a big part of the wealth story of each city and ties directly to priorities.

Calgary, Alberta or Canada, for example, collect almost nothing from drivers directly to fund the billions of public infrastructure they directly use, let alone the indirect costs. This is before things like election year gas tax holidays too. If we are looking for a candidate for where did our wealth go if not our public transit system, I suggest a quick loop of the $5B+ Stoney Trail and counting how many $100K Teslas and SUVs are zipping by in 6 to 12 lane high-speed freeway.

The prioritization of driving and the failure to capture direct and indirect costs related to it are so large and been in place long enough that it has distorted the actual land use and density citywide. Cheap and subsidized car ownership, combined with free and subsidized highways, combined with cheap or free, subsidized parking almost everywhere, all directly competes against transit's effectiveness and waters down the business case for investment in transit.

 

[darwink]

$5B+ Stoney Trail

More like $10 billion if you include the to be opened parts.

 

[MichaelS]

Almost every city listed in Surreal's post of cities with metros also include substantial toll road infrastructure on many major highways, both between and within these major cities. Many also have some form of congestion pricing and market-based parking schemes - all are attempts to capture the costs caused by private cars and congestion which we don't bother to do here. That's a big part of the wealth story of each city and ties directly to priorities.

Calgary, Alberta or Canada, for example, collect almost nothing from drivers directly to fund the billions of public infrastructure they directly use, let alone the indirect costs. This is before things like election year gas tax holidays too. If we are looking for a candidate for where did our wealth go if not our public transit system, I suggest a quick loop of the $5B+ Stoney Trail and counting how many $100K Teslas and SUVs are zipping by in 6 to 12 lane high-speed freeway.

The prioritization of driving and the failure to capture direct and indirect costs related to it are so large and been in place long enough that it has distorted the actual land use and density citywide. Cheap and subsidized car ownership, combined with free and subsidized highways, combined with cheap or free, subsidized parking almost everywhere, all directly competes against transit's effectiveness and waters down the business case for investment in transit.

Our very high parking rates downtown are a way we capture revenue from drivers, with the CPA paying a dividend to the City each year I think.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

Pyongyang’s system is definitely not more modern than Calgary’s. Not by a long shot. It’s only underground, if that’s the definition of “more modern” that is an incorrect assertion.

My experience is nearly two decades old, but given that the system is fifty years old now, I don't think it's likely to be that out of date (except for the portraits).
Pyongyang's trains are East German, wooden interiors. I saw a little old German graffiti scratched into one plastic window panel. Uninspiring inside, to say the least:

The stations themselves can be quite, well, they're a lot:

But not particularly well used, at least at midday:

I think thaţ the public art component of the project -- and if you think the 1% share here is high, I'm sure it's higher there -- would have mixed reviews. I can think of some people on here who would love this stairwell landing stained glass mosaic of a sunrise over a chemical plant:

But I think they would have a different response to this track-side painting showing farmers celebrating the glorious success of the Worker's Party:

I will say that the logo is absolutely world-class, even if nothing else is:

 

[potatopizzafan]

My experience is nearly two decades old, but given that the system is fifty years old now, I don't think it's likely to be that out of date (except for the portraits).
Pyongyang's trains are East German, wooden interiors. I saw a little old German graffiti scratched into one plastic window panel. Uninspiring inside, to say the least:


The stations themselves can be quite, well, they're a lot:


But not particularly well used, at least at midday:


I think thaţ the public art component of the project -- and if you think the 1% share here is high, I'm sure it's higher there -- would have mixed reviews. I can think of some people on here who would love this stairwell landing stained glass mosaic of a sunrise over a chemical plant:

But I think they would have a different response to this track-side painting showing farmers celebrating the glorious success of the Worker's Party:


I will say that the logo is absolutely world-class, even if nothing else is:

Wait, you've been to Pyongyang? Thats incredible. Was it a tourist trip or journalism? How do you even get access to NK?

 

[O-tac]

It sounds like the Glenmore / Deerfoot Interchange is actually happening. I figured it was just an election promise with no real funding but that's not the case. Sounds like a Joint Venture. Not sure of specifics or how much it costs.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Wait, you've been to Pyongyang? Thats incredible. Was it a tourist trip or journalism? How do you even get access to NK?

People do travel to NK, but it requires apply for visas and have to be accompanied while there. You can only get the visas by going to an embassy in places like Russia or China. If you search on Youtube you'll find videos of trips to NK. It's not completely uncommon, but definitely a place off the beaten path.

I wouldn't mind checking it out someday.

 

[Mountain Man]

It sounds like the Glenmore / Deerfoot Interchange is actually happening. I figured it was just an election promise with no real funding but that's not the case. Sounds like a Joint Venture. Not sure of specifics or how much it costs.

The city has been talking about this one for quite a while, definitely expect it in the not too distant future.

 

[O-tac]

The city has been talking about this one for quite a while, definitely expect it in the not too distant future.

I assumed after they built the flood wall under Glenmore that that ship had sailed.

 

[ByeByeBaby]

Wait, you've been to Pyongyang? Thats incredible. Was it a tourist trip or journalism? How do you even get access to NK?

Yep, around 20 years ago. Surrealplaces is correct; you get visa on arrival from China, travelling with a specialized tour operator. (These are the guys I used -- although their tours are more varied than they used to be... but still not that varied.) The DPRK is an interesting place to visit. You travel in a tour group, with multiple 'guides'. Your access is limited; you go with the group, do what you are supposed to, no free time for wandering around. The itinerary is basically a standard one with the only changes coming at the whims of the officials -- we stopped one time in a random public square in a small city and within 15 minutes, our guide got word to get us moving. If you break the rules, you may well be okay unless you do something really stupid, but your guide will face the music once you've left country, so... you follow the rules. In a weird way, going there was easier than many of the countries I've visited, because you pays your money and you takes your chances. Show up for the briefing in advance, follow the group.

The weird thing with a trip there is, well for one how cut off you are. But the other is that you're being actively lied to and misled. Not just the usual sugar-coating that a tour guide might do, pointing out the good and minimizing the bad, or even the sort of tall tales like a ghost tour or whatever. There are propaganda films and museums about the despicable US imperialists you have to watch, but it's also subtle stuff.

For instance, at the metro station, a train came in, a bunch of people got on, milled about the platform, and then got on a train going back the same way they came from. My best example is going to a music instruction room where a dozen young children played a song for us on keyboards; all expertly and in sync. (The North Koreans love doing things in sync.) Look more closely, and one girl is clearly two years older than the others, and hers is the only keyboard connected to an output cable.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Sounds about right! I've seen a couple of videos here and there, and that's the gist I get regarding NK. There used to be a show with called 'Departures', featuring a couple of young Canadian guys travelling the globe. One of the stops was NK, and they did an episode on it, it was pretty interesting. The were limited of course to what they could say, but they did point out the propaganda stuff in a round about way.

 

[Mountain Man]

Sounds about right! I've seen a couple of videos here and there, and that's the gist I get regarding NK. There used to be a show with called 'Departures', featuring a couple of young Canadian guys travelling the globe. One of the stops was NK, and they did an episode on it, it was pretty interesting. The were limited of course to what they could say, but they did point out the propaganda stuff in a round about way.

I saw that episode, everything was very neatly staged for them to film.

 

[FCC1982]

It sounds like the Glenmore / Deerfoot Interchange is actually happening. I figured it was just an election promise with no real funding but that's not the case. Sounds like a Joint Venture. Not sure of specifics or how much it costs.

Is there a recent news story about this ?