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General Construction Updates

Last week at Meadows Mile update, and some errata:

Professional Building

Professional Bldg Construction IMG_2489 by ferreth, on Flickr


Professional Bldg Construction IMG_2490 by ferreth, on Flickr

Caddy Dealer

Caddy Dealer Construction IMG_2492 by ferreth, on Flickr


Caddy Dealer Construction IMG_2496 by ferreth, on Flickr

The Blackfoot Point Buildings are (all?) getting re-bricked, due to bricks that have been falling off ever since I started working there 3 years ago. Build is 4-5 years old:

Blackfoot Point Re-bricking IMG_2497 by ferreth, on Flickr


One random photo - just a quick snap while I was on my roof doing a bit of flashing repair. The rain was starting so one shot was all I got - but from my vantage, Calgary still looking like it has a lot of construction:

Skyline roof view IMG_2500 by ferreth, on Flickr

A couple more photos up on my Flickr page if you wander over there.
 
Does anyone have an idea of how many multi-family project units are UC in Calgary? Or even more specifically, in buildings over 12 storeys in the centre city...
 
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darwink said:
When there is no develop-able land left in Vancouver that is not owned by a developer, you have to look elsewhere.
Click to expand...
I hope this so called optimism in Calgary is based on more than surveys, ratings or just 'we have been in a recession so long now, we are due for a recovery' sentiment. We still need many more good paying jobs to attract people from out of province to move here, particularly in the inner city.
The population and employment projections over the next 4 years, that were shared in another thread, do not echo a spike in residential condo development. We already know that commercial development in the inner city will be capped for years to come.
 
Employment is at an all time high. Sentiment lags employment, and of course since we are still growing, unemployment has been sticky. Our sentiment is because we are comparing ourselves to out past, instead of looking at how relative to others awesomely we are doing. That does not negate that companies in oil and gas are hurting (and gas has been for 7-8 years now!), that people are taking jobs at lower wages or without their previously expected overtime, or that people are switching careers into jobs that don't pay as well.
 
UrbanWarrior said:
Does anyone have an idea of how many multi-family project units are UC in Calgary? Or even more specifically, in buildings over 12 storeys in the centre city...
Click to expand...

A lot! Our City Centre population was about 44k last census, what's u/c should push us beyond 50k in a few yrs, not to mention other proposed projects. Also, think that Mission/Lower Mount Royal, Cliff Bungalow should be considered part of City Centre (another 12k) as these neighborhoods are just as vibrant and within walking distance to the core as anywhere else. Edm's City Centre around 31K according to last census - 12,700 downtown, 18,100 oliver. https://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/facts_figures/municipal-census-results.aspx. Oliver used to be bigger than Beltline, so stagnant these past few decades. I don't think we'll ever catch Mtl/Van, but a healthy density level would be 60,000-80,000 population for City Centre imo, combined with our massive commercial core.

City Centre Current Projects

Beltline U/C Units
Underwood Tower 225
11 + 11 369
Marriott Residences 303
One Tower 379
500 Block South 463
The Royal 223
Park Point 289
Pre-sales
Nude 177
Site Prep
Redstone 137
Curtis Block (may be multi-phase) 958
Total Beltline Units: 3,523

Telus Sky 341
Verve 288
The Hat East Village 221
Waterfront (final phase) 382
West Village Towers (phase 1) approx. 400
Ink 119
Concord 113
Total City Centre: 5,387
 
Last edited:
Spring2008 said:
Could be Toronto developers too. There's always land left, especially when you consider redevelopment sites. Problem is developers are taking on an increasingly large risk acquiring $300+ per buildable sf sites, especially with the potential of multi-year permit delays esp in Vancouver. On the rental side, new multi-res trading at 2-3% cap rates in Vancouver before financing. System's built on pure speculation of price appreciation which is very risky. That's also why you're seeing more developers/funds/reits developing rental in Calgary, due to higher returns over the long run despite the economy. If the economy was booming this whole time, I have no doubt Van/TO developers would have very aggressively continued expansion here. Unfortunately, we would have likely become very affordable too. So all this new supply and the slower economy last few years is a bit of a blessing in disguise.

I'm also liking that local developers are active on the midrise and rowhousing front. Massive amounts of duplex infill was always a given here, but looks like inner-city rowhousing is becoming a much bigger trend - loving it! Let the local firms tackle the middle density part (which imo is more important and covers a much larger area), big national reit's, developers/funds tackle the highrises. Some of the local firms are well positioned to do more highrise here in the future too.
Click to expand...

$300/ft2 buildable???? Just land costs? Man, I knew Vancouver was expensive, but that is out of this world.

Also agreed on locals taking on the rowhouse and lower density stuff. The overhead from the big firms is just too big to take on four units at a time. Let the little companies do that, and do it well.
 
Spring2008 said:
A lot! Our City Centre population was about 44k last census, what's u/c should push us beyond 50k in a few yrs, not to mention other proposed projects. Also, think that Mission/Lower Mount Royal, Cliff Bungalow should be considered part of City Centre (another 12k) as these neighborhoods are just as vibrant and within walking distance to the core as anywhere else. Edm's City Centre around 31K according to last census - 12,700 downtown, 18,100 oliver. https://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/facts_figures/municipal-census-results.aspx. Oliver used to be bigger than Beltline, so stagnant these past few decades. I don't think we'll ever catch Mtl/Van, but a healthy density level would be 60,000-80,000 population for City Centre imo, combined with our massive commercial core.

City Centre Current Projects

Beltline U/C Units
Underwood Tower 225
The Point 369
Marriott Residences 303
One Tower 379
500 Block South 463
The Royal 223
Park Point 289
Pre-sales
Nude 177
Site Prep
Redstone 137
12 Ave SE by One Properties (may be multi-phase) 958
Total Beltline Units: 3,523

Telus Sky 341
Verve 288
The Hat East Village 221
Waterfront (final phase) 382
West Village Towers (phase 1) approx. 400
Ink 119
Concord 113
Total City Centre: 5,387
Click to expand...

Good post!

Sorry to be so pedantic, but density is ppl/area. When you say 60,000-80,000 you are talking about total population.

also, I think you are missing the 11 + 11 project.
 
Those projects and the fact that many of the newly built towers still have suites that are getting filled up (Guardian for example has quite a few suites still left), means a pretty hefty increase in population over the next few years. .
Spring2008 said:
A lot! Our City Centre population was about 44k last census, what's u/c should push us beyond 50k in a few yrs, not to mention other proposed projects. Also, think that Mission/Lower Mount Royal, Cliff Bungalow should be considered part of City Centre (another 12k) as these neighborhoods are just as vibrant and within walking distance to the core as anywhere else. Edm's City Centre around 31K according to last census - 12,700 downtown, 18,100 oliver. https://www.edmonton.ca/city_government/facts_figures/municipal-census-results.aspx. Oliver used to be bigger than Beltline, so stagnant these past few decades. I don't think we'll ever catch Mtl/Van, but a healthy density level would be 60,000-80,000 population for City Centre imo, combined with our massive commercial core.

City Centre Current Projects

Beltline U/C Units
Underwood Tower 225
The Point 369
Marriott Residences 303
One Tower 379
500 Block South 463
The Royal 223
Park Point 289
Pre-sales
Nude 177
Site Prep
Redstone 137
12 Ave SE by One Properties (may be multi-phase) 958
Total Beltline Units: 3,523

Telus Sky 341
Verve 288
The Hat East Village 221
Waterfront (final phase) 382
West Village Towers (phase 1) approx. 400
Ink 119
Concord 113
Total City Centre: 5,387
Click to expand...
 
Social Justice said:
Good post!

Sorry to be so pedantic, but density is ppl/area. When you say 60,000-80,000 you are talking about total population.

also, I think you are missing the 11 + 11 project.
Click to expand...
We also have Curtis Block and Cressey on 12th to be added, and The Hat at Elbow River, is more or less city centre.

Curtis Block - 628 units
The Hat@Elbow - 1250 units
Cressy on 12th - 416 units
 
retrofiturbanism said:
$300/ft2 buildable???? Just land costs? Man, I knew Vancouver was expensive, but that is out of this world.

Also agreed on locals taking on the rowhouse and lower density stuff. The overhead from the big firms is just too big to take on four units at a time. Let the little companies do that, and do it well.
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely. I'd say $400 - $500 per buildable sf is becoming more the norm for downtown and prime commercial/residential strips within Vancouver proper. I've even seen over $1,000 per buildable sf, but i'll give the developers benefit of the doubt that they have a very high probability of upzoning in these cases. Either way, it's disturbing as far as affordability and we're fortunate to not deal with this. Can purchase most inner-city sites here for ~$30 - $80 per buildable sf.

Social Justice said:
Good post!

Sorry to be so pedantic, but density is ppl/area. When you say 60,000-80,000 you are talking about total population.

also, I think you are missing the 11 + 11 project.
Click to expand...

Yes, I mean a good density/vibrancy will be achieved when City Centre hits 60,000 - 80,000 population along with our huge commercial core. I have 11 + 11 project as The Point. Will edit.

Surrealplaces said:
We also have Curtis Block and Cressey on 12th to be added, and The Hat at Elbow River, is more or less city centre.

Curtis Block - 628 units
The Hat@Elbow - 1250 units
Cressy on 12th - 416 units
Click to expand...

Curtis Block - I have as 12th ave project by One Properties. Will change. Yeah, this doesn't include the many other big proposals cause i'm not sure of likelihood of proceeding in next couple years, but that number can def trend higher. Really hope that Cressy proposal gets going, looks great and the current site looks to be in terrible shape. Also, hoping to see that new Chinatown proposal get going, fills a huge east-west gap in Chinatown, plus will add more density to 1st sw. Pipe dream for me is to get the 7 tower Eau-Claire development started. Would add so much to the area. Not sure how serious GWL is about it anymore.
 
Ah yes. I was getting Curtis Block mixed up with the Oxford proposal...which is a ways off of course. Same for the next phases of Portfolio.

We're heading in the right direction, and having places like the Royal open up with a Canadian Tire/Urban Fare and 5th and 3rd opening up a Loblaws is helping push that progress. I'd love to see the east end of 17th pick up on the development side. As much as I like tall towers, I'd also like to see some more low-mid rise projects go up around the east end of the Beltline and EV.

Spring2008 said:
Yes, absolutely. I'd say $400 - $500 per buildable sf is becoming more the norm for downtown and prime commercial/residential strips within Vancouver proper. I've even seen over $1,000 per buildable sf, but i'll give the developers benefit of the doubt that they have a very high probability of upzoning in these cases. Either way, it's disturbing as far as affordability and we're fortunate to not deal with this. Can purchase most inner-city sites here for ~$30 - $80 per buildable sf.



Yes, I mean a good density/vibrancy will be achieved when City Centre hits 60,000 - 80,000 population along with our huge commercial core. I have 11 + 11 project as The Point. Will edit.



Curtis Block - I have as 12th ave project by One Properties. Will change. Yeah, this doesn't include the many other big proposals cause i'm not sure of likelihood of proceeding in next couple years, but that number can def trend higher. Really hope that Cressy proposal gets going, looks great and the current site looks to be in terrible shape. Also, hoping to see that new Chinatown proposal get going, fills a huge east-west gap in Chinatown, plus will add more density to 1st sw. Pipe dream for me is to get the 7 tower Eau-Claire development started. Would add so much to the area. Not sure how serious GWL is about it anymore.
Click to expand...
 
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You know one of the biggest problems here is that the city centre right now only caters to the younger crowd and not as effectively as Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto. If you look at the forecasts for the population group between 20-34 its actually projected to shrink from where we are today. If the city is determined to grow the inner city, they're gonna need to start making policy changes. You can hardly raise a family in the beltline or downtown with a 2 bedroom condo, on top of that there aren't enough perks to convince a lot of the younger crowd to live downtown with the higher rents and condo prices. Most of my friends have begun moving to Toronto or Vancouver. The only thing that really retained the younger crowd in Calgary was the prosperity of the oil boom, now that the economy has sunk, not only is net migration of younger crowds from other provinces going to be hard but they're gonna think twice about living in a lesser lively city. And lastly, going back to overall perks of living in the city centre, the most important issue IMO is the lack of services. Our whole Beltline and downtown should be connected with a street car or an underground tube/train that allows people to move around the core of our city effectively, the Green line will help somewhat but lets just say ur living in the west end of the beltline, it becomes a long mission to get to a mall like the Core as parking is out of the question. IMO, I think the city cares but not enough to try, they always bring an initial hype but so far a lot of their visions have never followed through. They've been trying to fix downtown for decades through development plans for Eau Claire, Westend downtown and now East village and it looks like they've pretty much given up for any real future fixes. Not to be rude but sometimes I go to these Development Open houses and its just older people (nice people) that really don't know what they're talking about, we need people that understand how other global cities are vibrant with a younger vision in mind, not a 60 year old telling me what the city expects to have out of an entertainment district (no disrespect). I would be even open to the idea of having people from Vancouver, London or other vibrant cities employed with our cities planning organizations like CMLC and jointly tackle our core.
 
You raise some valid points. The issue of families in the core is a tough one. The cost of building larger 3 bedroom units becomes prohibitive, and many developers have said that they just don't sell - probably due to the high cost. Perhaps an increase on the levy to new homes can be applied as a subsidy for three bedroom units?

FWIW this is also an issue for Van and Tor, and even more so actually.
I actually know quite people who moved out to Vancouver in past years, but now have families and have moved back or are planning on moving back to Calgary. The biggest factor being cost.
gsunnyg said:
You know one of the biggest problems here is that the city centre right now only caters to the younger crowd and not as effectively as Vancouver, Montreal, or Toronto. If you look at the forecasts for the population group between 20-34 its actually projected to shrink from where we are today. If the city is determined to grow the inner city, they're gonna need to start making policy changes. You can hardly raise a family in the beltline or downtown with a 2 bedroom condo, on top of that there aren't enough perks to convince a lot of the younger crowd to live downtown with the higher rents and condo prices. Most of my friends have begun moving to Toronto or Vancouver. The only thing that really retained the younger crowd in Calgary was the prosperity of the oil boom, now that the economy has sunk, not only is net migration of younger crowds from other provinces going to be hard but they're gonna think twice about living in a lesser lively city. And lastly, going back to overall perks of living in the city centre, the most important issue IMO is the lack of services. Our whole Beltline and downtown should be connected with a street car or an underground tube/train that allows people to move around the core of our city effectively, the Green line will help somewhat but lets just say ur living in the west end of the beltline, it becomes a long mission to get to a mall like the Core as parking is out of the question. IMO, I think the city cares but not enough to try, they always bring an initial hype but so far a lot of their visions have never followed through. They've been trying to fix downtown for decades through development plans for Eau Claire, Westend downtown and now East village and it looks like they've pretty much given up for any real future fixes. Not to be rude but sometimes I go to these Development Open houses and its just older people (nice people) that really don't know what they're talking about, we need people that understand how other global cities are vibrant with a younger vision in mind, not a 60 year old telling me what the city expects to have out of an entertainment district (no disrespect). I would be even open to the idea of having people from Vancouver, London or other vibrant cities employed with our cities planning organizations like CMLC and jointly tackle our core.
Click to expand...
 
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