General Construction Updates

[Surrealplaces]

I wish Sunridge mall had have been built right beside the Sunridge LRT station instead of having the parking lot between the two. Maybe it's not too late to build a two or three tower residential project on the parking lot between the mall and station.

Im happy for the renovations but kind of disappointed at the same times seeing its a lost opportunity for it to be redeveloped into a proper TOD mall. I don't know if the renovations are gonna help much bringing back the footfalls. Sure would like to have atleast 1 or 2 malls redevelop along LRT points like they are doing in Vancouver and Toronto proposals.

The pic below is the Richmond CF mall proposal. I know its massive density but theres no reason why Calgary can't attempt these sorts of developments in phases. Especially seeing how mid tier malls are dying in NA, sunridge renovations seem very underwhelming.

 

[O-tac]

Is that the lrt side of Scumridge? Any work being done on other parts? What about the former Target?

 

[haltcatchfire]

The Target is being reworked already. Can’t remember what stores but likely being split to a few retailers.

Is that the lrt side of Scumridge? Any work being done on other parts? What about the former Target?

 

[MichaelS]

I wish Sunridge mall had have been built right beside the Sunridge LRT station instead of having the parking lot between the two. Maybe it's not too late to build a two or three tower residential project on the parking lot between the mall and station.

It is not the Sunridge LRT, but Rundle LRT station. Common mistake. The City recently completed a Rundle Area Master Plan (not a statutory ARP, but similar) for the mall site, and surrounding area, found here:
http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documents/transit-oriented-development/RundleAreaMasterPlan.pdf

 

[Joborule]

Is that the lrt side of Scumridge? Any work being done on other parts? What about the former Target?

The Target is being reworked already. Can’t remember what stores but likely being split to a few retailers.

The renders are along the Target site. Looks like the mall is expanding eastward from it into the parking lot pocket that was between Target and Sport Chek.

In regards to TOD development. Sunridge is definitely set up well to follow suite with what's happening in Vancouver and Toronto with mall sites becoming mixed use sites. There's plenty of space between the mall and the station, that there's still opportunity to building condos while still maintaining the current mall format in the meantime. Hopefully it's something that the do within the not to distant future.

 

[Surrealplaces]

It is not the Sunridge LRT, but Rundle LRT station. Common mistake. The City recently completed a Rundle Area Master Plan (not a statutory ARP, but similar) for the mall site, and surrounding area, found here:
http://www.calgary.ca/PDA/pd/Documents/transit-oriented-development/RundleAreaMasterPlan.pdf

I've been calling it Sunridge station for years without realizing it lol.

From the city document, shows what they envision for the area.

 

[gsunnyg]

I've been calling it Sunridge station for years without realizing it lol.

From the city document, shows what they envision for the area.
View attachment 158022

Thats what I'm talking about! a true TOD. Im hundred percent down for something like this. I know its just a general vision plan but if some of those towers interacted more with the mall and added more retail space like they do in the Richmond rendering that would be even more awesome! I had a buddy of my working at the south centre Hudson Bay a couple of years ago and he said the only Bay losing money was the one at Sunridge and that rumours were flying around of it shutting down. Also H&M shutdown too which always helped drive more teenagers into the mall for affordable fast fashion. This master plan vision would surely bring Sunridge mall back to its mid-late 2000's glory days. Another mall with a lot of potential for redevelopment is Marlborough mall given its further away from the airport so buildings can be higher and denser. Overall there are some very optimistic opportunities but i'm quite pessimistic to a certain extent given that a mall like Westbrook had a redevelopment in place a decade ago and still nothing has been built.

 

[darwink]

Land costs have to go much highe

Thats what I'm talking about! a true TOD. Im hundred percent down for something like this. I know its just a general vision plan but if some of those towers interacted more with the mall and added more retail space like they do in the Richmond rendering that would be even more awesome! I had a buddy of my working at the south centre Hudson Bay a couple of years ago and he said the only Bay losing money was the one at Sunridge and that rumours were flying around of it shutting down. Also H&M shutdown too which always helped drive more teenagers into the mall for affordable fast fashion. This master plan vision would surely bring Sunridge mall back to its mid-late 2000's glory days. Another mall with a lot of potential for redevelopment is Marlborough mall given its further away from the airport so buildings can be higher and denser. Overall there are some very optimistic opportunities but i'm quite pessimistic to a certain extent given that a mall like Westbrook had a redevelopment in place a decade ago and still nothing has been built.

Until we have much higher land costs, it isn't worth it to integrate to a much higher degree. It does cost a lot to loft towers, add extra parking, and such. Same with people suggesting the Arts Commons be funded through a residential development on the site. There just isn't enough profit in the Calgary market to capture value versus the extra costs integrating brings.

Also hadn't put it together that the site is noise constrained:

 

[Cowtown]

I would think that residential towers might work for Sunridge if it wasn't so close to the airport, and you could do a couple of 20-25 storey towers. I like the low rise layout envisioned, but I agree that it might not be cost effective.

Land costs have to go much highe

Until we have much higher land costs, it isn't worth it to integrate to a much higher degree. It does cost a lot to loft towers, add extra parking, and such. Same with people suggesting the Arts Commons be funded through a residential development on the site. There just isn't enough profit in the Calgary market to capture value versus the extra costs integrating brings.

Also hadn't put it together that the site is noise constrained:
View attachment 158033

 

[gsunnyg]

Land costs have to go much highe

Until we have much higher land costs, it isn't worth it to integrate to a much higher degree. It does cost a lot to loft towers, add extra parking, and such. Same with people suggesting the Arts Commons be funded through a residential development on the site. There just isn't enough profit in the Calgary market to capture value versus the extra costs integrating brings.

Also hadn't put it together that the site is noise constrained:
View attachment 158033

Ur definitely right that higher land costs are good catalysts for taller denser developments but again continously going back to the problem thats always a discussion here and that is sprawl. Its like the city doesn't really care, they propose these aggressive density plans but at the same time just flood the market with more greenfield development. I don't see something like this getting built seeing that condos are being built much cheaper in areas further north like Skyview. On top of that, normally, transit sites would be high in demand for such dense projects but not in this city. The transit system in Calgary is very poor in standards compared to cities that are well known for being massive on transit. I know its the third most successful LRT system in NA in terms of ridership but that isn't saying much if we look at actual metro systems outdoing us (particularly ones in our 3 large cities and east coast American cities). The transit system in Calgary sort of is just made to cover as much distance as they can bargain for, although there are some improvements on the green line. Hence, I think theres still not a strong demand for living near transit stations given Calgary's still a very much car city. I mean it really does get me a little ticked off seeing something like this being proposed for rundle station yet knowing theres no way in heck that it will be worked on for maybe even a decade. Like isn't it a crap load more beneficial for the city to promote growth like this rundle station master plan where they can generate more revenue per sq.ft in taxes along with more ctrain ridership versus approving 14 new communities?

 

[darwink]

^ Isn't there a proposal to take down rental townhouses near this site and put up rental lowrises? Or am I confusing this with somewhere else.

 

[Surrealplaces]

^ Isn't there a proposal to take down rental townhouses near this site and put up rental lowrises? Or am I confusing this with somewhere else.

There was indeed a plan for that area. There was a,so another one for the area beside Marlborough Mall, but that was more of adding additional buildings iirc.

 

[retrofiturbanism]

Underrated post.

I'm actually surprised the topic of multifamily over supply is not talked about more on SRC.

We had a net migration of 11,500 people in 2018. If half of those moved into greenfield developments that leaves 5750 people to move into all the inner cities developments.

Multifamily over supply is a suburban phenomena. Vacancy rates in the Beltline are incredibly low.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Valid points. The city does talk about density and sprawl control etc.., but until they come up with a way to balance things out to make inner city developments more economical or at least on equal ground as compared to greenfield development, the problem won't go away. Greenfield development ever go away, but a better balance can be struck to help encourage development in areas where it's almost economically feasible, but not quite.

I know we've discussed possible ways to change the situation through increased levies etc.. but there isn't one easy solution. Maybe the city can increase the levies and out the money aside, and developers can apply for it through a grant? I don't doubt it wold be a bureaucratic nightmare, but it still might get the job done.

Ur definitely right that higher land costs are good catalysts for taller denser developments but again continously going back to the problem thats always a discussion here and that is sprawl. Its like the city doesn't really care, they propose these aggressive density plans but at the same time just flood the market with more greenfield development. I don't see something like this getting built seeing that condos are being built much cheaper in areas further north like Skyview. On top of that, normally, transit sites would be high in demand for such dense projects but not in this city. The transit system in Calgary is very poor in standards compared to cities that are well known for being massive on transit. I know its the third most successful LRT system in NA in terms of ridership but that isn't saying much if we look at actual metro systems outdoing us (particularly ones in our 3 large cities and east coast American cities). The transit system in Calgary sort of is just made to cover as much distance as they can bargain for, although there are some improvements on the green line. Hence, I think theres still not a strong demand for living near transit stations given Calgary's still a very much car city. I mean it really does get me a little ticked off seeing something like this being proposed for rundle station yet knowing theres no way in heck that it will be worked on for maybe even a decade. Like isn't it a crap load more beneficial for the city to promote growth like this rundle station master plan where they can generate more revenue per sq.ft in taxes along with more ctrain ridership versus approving 14 new communities?

 

[bgarneau]

Multifamily over supply is a suburban phenomena. Vacancy rates in the Beltline are incredibly low.

Agreed - I would imagine majority of new Calgarians are living as inner-city as they possibly can.

That list posted earlier is fascinating. Would be cool to see a spreadsheet that tracks how it plays out, as well as to see # of units and rental v condo.... anyone bored? haha

As Vancouver and Toronto continue to fall in affordability for average folks, and as Calgary's economic situation remains unstable/uncertain, more people will be coming to Calgary.
I think we are about to see an explosion of purpose-built rentals in the coming years.