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Calgary Transit

Surrealplaces said:
If the Green Line is above ground, it should be okay. One would walk into the station and HSR would be main level, and up a level to the Green line.
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For the central parts, I don't see any way of accommodating HSR at grade. Commuter and CABR could work, but dedicated HSR tracks will have to be elevated before Inglewood.

If GL is elevated, then HSR either has to end at GCS, or if the desire is to run HSR all the way to Banff, then HSR and GL tracks would have to crossover before GCS somewhere.

Still doable, but all the projects have to be coordinated just right..
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
For the central parts, I don't see any way of accommodating HSR at grade. Commuter and CABR could work, but dedicated HSR tracks will have to be elevated before Inglewood.

If GL is elevated, then HSR either has to end at GCS, or if the desire is to run HSR all the way to Banff, then HSR and GL tracks would have to crossover before GCS somewhere.

Still doable, but all the projects have to be coordinated just right..
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I guess it comes down to is there no [possible way to do HSR at grade, or is it something that's difficult? It would be difficult, but isn't impossible. HSR elevated could work, but like you say it would have to be coordinated with the GL so they don't interfere. Crossing over before the GCS would work.

If HSR can be done at grade, a lot of things are solved.
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If both are elevated, then it becomes a bit of an issue, but maybe they can run side by side over 10th with two sets of tracks for the GL but only one shared track for the HSR
1767992697525.png




Of course underground would also solve that, having both HSR and GL share an underground tunnel, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
1767993370460.png




I think it's important to make sure we work in proper plans for HSR to Banff, otherwise it's kind of pointless. I mean HSR to Edmonton is still good, but adding Banff in is a game changer and makes the Calgary-Edmonton link much more viable.
 
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Surrealplaces said:
I guess it comes down to is there no [possible way to do HSR at grade, or is it something that's difficult? It would be difficult, but isn't impossible. HSR elevated could work, but like you say it would have to be coordinated with the GL so they don't interfere. Crossing over before the GCS would work.

If HSR can be done at grade, a lot of things are solved.
...

I think it's important to make sure we work in proper plans for HSR to Banff, otherwise it's kind of pointless. I mean HSR to Edmonton is still good, but adding Banff in is a game changer and makes the Calgary-Edmonton link much more viable.
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Agreed, taking HSR all the way to Banff is the way to go.

There's probably some engineering wizardry that could get the HSR tracks to work at grade, but I think the bigger problem is the lawyers. At the info session last year the province was pretty clear they wanted full control of the HSR ROW.

To get HSR all the way to Banff without getting in CP's way would take a viaduct over their tracks all the way through downtown, maybe even all the way to Banff. Which means GL would either have to run above the CP tracks as well until 2st. If it stays on 10av then it'll have to cross over HSR at +60, which makes underground GL look appealing again.

Alternately, GL could stay on the tentative 10av elevated route, but tunnel the HSR line under the CP tracks through DT instead.

It really is quite a puzzle, I guess I can understand why the province's plan is running late..
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
Agreed, taking HSR all the way to Banff is the way to go.

There's probably some engineering wizardry that could get the HSR tracks to work at grade, but I think the bigger problem is the lawyers. At the info session last year the province was pretty clear they wanted full control of the HSR ROW.
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It’s my understanding CPKC is the issue. If the tracks were owned by the city or province it’d be super easy, but CPKC is always difficult to deal with. Though if the province is demanding full control then they are also the issue.
 
If we were in China, HSR through downtown Calgary would be an easy task, but in red tape bound, bureaucratic Canada it’s going to take 50 years to get it done.
It’s unfortunate because having it go through downtown and in to Banff is what makes it useful.
An HSR line between Calgary and Edmonton only, with a central station in Victoria Park is a waste of money.
 
Atticus said:
If we were in China, HSR through downtown Calgary would be an easy task, but in red tape bound, bureaucratic Canada it’s going to take 50 years to get it done.
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Bullshit elimination is something that China does seem to excel at nowadays, even if you don't always agree with the motives or results...

But I suppose after centuries of civil wars, people get a little more attuned to recognizing divide and conquer type nonsense.

thecivilengineer said:
Since Carney’s going to China, he should ask them to send over a few contractors so Canada can see a high-speed rail project finished this century and lot cheaper?
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HSR tech is more or less a solved problem, it's the numbers and will that keeps tripping things up here.

If Carney is going to come back with something, I'd rather it be blueprints for a decent fighter jet.

Canada could call it the J'ai-Vingt!
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
Agreed, taking HSR all the way to Banff is the way to go.

There's probably some engineering wizardry that could get the HSR tracks to work at grade, but I think the bigger problem is the lawyers. At the info session last year the province was pretty clear they wanted full control of the HSR ROW.

To get HSR all the way to Banff without getting in CP's way would take a viaduct over their tracks all the way through downtown, maybe even all the way to Banff. Which means GL would either have to run above the CP tracks as well until 2st. If it stays on 10av then it'll have to cross over HSR at +60, which makes underground GL look appealing again.

Alternately, GL could stay on the tentative 10av elevated route, but tunnel the HSR line under the CP tracks through DT instead.

It really is quite a puzzle, I guess I can understand why the province's plan is running late..
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I'd go elevated over 9 Ave instead of the heavy tracks. But I don't see how you're getting from DT up to the airport or out to the west without working closely with CP for mutual benefit.

I think creating a one seat ride from Banff to the Airport/Edmonton creates more challenges than its worth (and if anything it's not in Calgary's interest at all). The high-frequency CADE and HSR to Edmonton should share their own dedicated tracks on the north side of CP tracks up to at least 2 St SW. Then Banff line can run from the southernmost track through DT until it gets it's own dedicated track (which should probably be on the south side)

I laid it out in more detail plus a bunch of other ramblings here:
https://skyrisecities.com/forum/threads/calgary-regional-rail-transit.25344/post-2328025
 
The problem is our rail cordor through downtown is really not wide enough for a massive regional Grand Central Station in most of the downtown. The rail cordor at union station in Toronto is close to ~115 meteres wide.
1768046638064.png


Obviously our metro area is a lot smaller so we dont need as many trains. But if we wanted anything of similar magnitude the only place wide enough in the core is basically where the Grand central station is planned to go (Although I don't think its planned to use all the land I've measured here?)
1768046800074.png
 
At the moment I can't see when we'd be needing more than one or two lines for HSR or Regional rail. I suppose looking long term things could change, but either way HSR to Banff still needs to go through downtown somehow. Regional rail like they have in Toronto would cause a need for more lines, but I don't foresee that kind of regional rail here for a long time.

Logistically wise it's much easier to do Victoria Park, but if we can take the time to find a solution for DT, it would be the better location.
 
AJX said:
It’s my understanding CPKC is the issue. If the tracks were owned by the city or province it’d be super easy, but CPKC is always difficult to deal with. Though if the province is demanding full control then they are also the issue.
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Can't the province and the feds lean on CPKC for use of the track and the space? Twist their arm a bit.
 
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