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Calgary Transit

Calgcouver, in the Green Line thread, mentioned an idea: “Just connect the blue line to the airport via 60 St > Airport Trail > Barlow Trail. It doesn't have to be this hard.”

If I were someone going from the airport straight to downtown, with as many stops as there are already on the Blue Line, this would be super annoying. I would prefer to have an express or limited stop service between the airport and downtown much like the UP Express in Toronto.
 
YYCguy said:
Calgcouver, in the Green Line thread, mentioned an idea: “Just connect the blue line to the airport via 60 St > Airport Trail > Barlow Trail. It doesn't have to be this hard.”

If I were someone going from the airport straight to downtown, with as many stops as there are already on the Blue Line, this would be super annoying. I would prefer to have an express or limited stop service between the airport and downtown much like the UP Express in Toronto.
Click to expand...
Blue line isn't really feasible except to say we have a train to the airport. Saddletown to Downtown shows 30 minutes on google maps - going airport downtown means 45 minutes or longer.
The 300 bus direct from Airport to Downtown is only 36 minutes (outside of rush hour) - why spend the millions for a train that is slower than the current bus
 
denofslack said:
Blue line isn't really feasible except to say we have a train to the airport. Saddletown to Downtown shows 30 minutes on google maps - going airport downtown means 45 minutes or longer.
The 300 bus direct from Airport to Downtown is only 36 minutes (outside of rush hour) - why spend the millions for a train that is slower than the current bus
Click to expand...
Exactly my point. What have the Airport to Downtown train proponents (Liricon or whatever it’s called, and others) estimated for a travel time?
 
YYCguy said:
Calgcouver, in the Green Line thread, mentioned an idea: “Just connect the blue line to the airport via 60 St > Airport Trail > Barlow Trail. It doesn't have to be this hard.”

If I were someone going from the airport straight to downtown, with as many stops as there are already on the Blue Line, this would be super annoying. I would prefer to have an express or limited stop service between the airport and downtown much like the UP Express in Toronto.
Click to expand...

If there is sufficient switching on the line it should be possible to provide some sort of express service mixed with the trains that serve all stations, but a more direct method would still be better.

YYCguy said:
Exactly my point. What have the Airport to Downtown train proponents (Liricon or whatever it’s called, and others) estimated for a travel time?
Click to expand...

I haven't seen any numbers for the YYC/Banff proposal, but iirc there were some numbers that put a HSR link at around 10 minutes.

Almost as good as having a terminal right downtown!
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
HSR link at around 10 minutes.
Click to expand...
Numbers like that make it feasible for average people to use that instead of asking for a favor or taking a cab.

I think the Blue Line Spur makes very little sense, if there was a third track for an express train, sure but there isn't and you might as well put that track in the nose creek valley to be used by regional and HSR.
 
YYCguy said:
Calgcouver, in the Green Line thread, mentioned an idea: “Just connect the blue line to the airport via 60 St > Airport Trail > Barlow Trail. It doesn't have to be this hard.”

If I were someone going from the airport straight to downtown, with as many stops as there are already on the Blue Line, this would be super annoying. I would prefer to have an express or limited stop service between the airport and downtown much like the UP Express in Toronto.
Click to expand...
The UP Express is massively subsidized, and they're talking about it replacing it with GO Train in the future. A city as large as Toronto with a far bigger airport cannot sustain a direct rail link, I doubt we can. The often missed part of airport connections is that it's a huge employment centre, arguably larger than any c-train station outside of downtown. The majority of the users will be workers at the airport and surrounding amenities and not travelers.
 
^ Have to think of projects as a system, not as individual parts which are compared to individual parts. The original proposal for a toronto airport link was Blue 22, a minimum infrastructure project that was proposed as a private, freestanding (it pays its operations AND capital costs) project. Increasing infrastructure spend for future capacity, rather than a single track, plus many grade separations increased the costs a lot. That extra capacity isn't FOR UP. A lot of the cash was politicians deciding it was also worth it to spend hundreds of millions more rather than have a single neighbourhood complaining forever that happened to be in a swing seat.

The YYC-Calgary-Banff project is an economic development play first imo, not solely a transportation project. An extra night of visitation by an international tourist/conventioneer generates about $1000 in spending, and international tourist spending is an export for Alberta and Canada, a foreign currency earner, which changes why we should do it versus evaluating as a transportation or business play.

A simple model of the Banff link only from CED:
1728060948009.png

Have to raise the numbers by inflation a bit:
1728061008458.png


That incremental spending is like if DHC was able to secure orders for 26 new water bombers a year, every year and sell them overseas. It is akin to oil sands WCS production increase of an incremental 48,000 barrels a day.

A very basic economic model, dividing that spending 40% hotels, 25% food, 20% recreation, 15% culture, results in 9.97 jobs per $1million of spending using Alberta's 2019 economic multipliers Simple Multipliers (Industries) Open Model – Direct and Indirect Impacts, or 14,357 person years of employment per year.

And that is only Calgary's number, not Banffs, and an only 5% boost in overall visitation to Banff (the moderate, moderate case).
.
 
CalgaryTiger said:
I'm wondering what could actually be used for LRT that is used for BRT? I don't go to this part of the city but is it looking like 17th Ave SE, that can be converted very easily. This section I'm much more skeptical.
Click to expand...
They'll move the shattered or locked heated shelters from the BRT to the LRT 🤣
 
CalgaryTiger said:
I'm wondering what could actually be used for LRT that is used for BRT? I don't go to this part of the city but is it looking like 17th Ave SE, that can be converted very easily. This section I'm much more skeptical.
Click to expand...
It will likely have to be entirely rebuilt. Utilities under a brt aren’t nearly as much of a concern as under an LRT.
 
For the Centre Street upgrades, have they ever released any estimate on the travel time improvements for this work? Nicer stops and next bus times are great - especially on Centre Street as a powerhouse corridor of transit ridership - but I want more details. I assume there is information that has been generated at least internally or as part of public discussions and engagement, but it's painfully never available for this kind of project.

This triggered me to once again compare Calgary Transit's communication v. best-in-class Translink:

Here's Calgary's page on this project - it's cluttered, long and never clear what the project even is:
https://www.calgary.ca/planning/projects/transit-north-central-brt.html
  • Service levels expected for transit users: not provided.
  • Infrastructure and operations improvements: not provided directly - maybe it can be inferred from the drawings? Doesn't actually summarize the improvements on this page. Only info provide is qualitative goals of the project (provide shorter transit travel times, increase reliability, enhance comfort and convenience, improve accessibility etc.)
  • Capacity and speed improvements: not provided.
  • Other non-transit corridor improvements: not provided directly - only through the qualitative "goals" list (e.g. improve walking and wheeling amenities)
  • Cost: $50 million (includes all short and medium-term projects) Funding has been provided through the Green Line LRT project.
  • Other information provided: map of route and stations (not transit-branded nor a map used by end users), lots of background on public engagement, a ton of construction information and detailed technical terms about specific construction steps (e.g. for some reason the public needs to know when and why the "pavement milling and overlay" step occurs) etc.

For comparison, here's the level of information available for a similar BRT project from Translink in Surrey. All of this is super easy to read and find:
https://www.translink.ca/plans-and-projects/projects/bus-projects/r6-scott-road-rapidbus
  • Service level expected for transit users: high-frequency, limited-stop bus service every 7.5 minutes during peak hours and 15 minutes during off-peak from 5 a.m. to 1 a.m. on weekdays and 6 a.m. to 1 a.m. on weekends.
  • Infrastructure and operations improvements: features sheltered stops, accessible loading areas, all-door boarding, real-time information, and accessibility features such as text-to-audio functionality of the digital bus arrival information and tactile pads.
  • Capacity and speed improvements: R6 RapidBus improves bus trips on the Scott Road corridor by up to 10 minutes in each direction. With 60-foot articulated buses, the R6 RapidBus provides more space for 20 per cent more riders on the busiest corridor south of the Fraser River.
  • Other non-transit corridor improvements: Street changes have also been implemented to enhance safety. This includes adding new crosswalks, protected left turn lanes, signal improvements, and allowance for making U-turns at selected locations.
  • Cost: $33 million investment was delivered jointly by TransLink, the City of Surrey, and the City of Delta
  • Other information provided: map of route and stations (Translink-branded like a user map), a summary video of the project and benefits, FAQ

The frustrating part is Calgary's page provides way more information and is much longer - it's just entirely not useful to explain the project, the benefits, and the end user impacts to transit users. I support the project and want it to succeed and want to advocate for more transit, but we rarely get any information that can help anyone do this or even understand what benefits are being created. Just tell me some quantified facts about the improvements - $50M is too big of number to not know all the other numbers!
 
The biggest difference between the two projects is that Calgary Transit began engagement on the BRT in fall 2020 and its going to be open... Actually, it doesn't say when, but construction will be "substantially complete" in Summer 2025, whenever that is. But hopefully it'll be open for the September service change in 2025.

The Translink project is the same length and the same type of project (12.5 km, frequent limited stop service with improved stops and some queue jumps. They have a slightly bigger bit of work on the SB-EB turn). But they began engagement in fall 2021, and the page is for the operating service, which started at the start of the year.

So maybe the web page needs to be longer since it's covering a 5 year project, versus Translink's barely more than 2 year project.
 
CBBarnett said:
For the Centre Street upgrades, have they ever released any estimate on the travel time improvements for this work? Nicer stops and next bus times are great - especially on Centre Street as a powerhouse corridor of transit ridership - but I want more details. I assume there is information that has been generated at least internally or as part of public discussions and engagement, but it's painfully never available for this kind of project.

This triggered me to once again compare Calgary Transit's communication v. best-in-class Translink:

Here's Calgary's page on this project - it's cluttered, long and never clear what the project even is:
https://www.calgary.ca/planning/projects/transit-north-central-brt.html
  • Service levels expected for transit users: not provided.
  • Infrastructure and operations improvements: not provided directly - maybe it can be inferred from the drawings? Doesn't actually summarize the improvements on this page. Only info provide is qualitative goals of the project (provide shorter transit travel times, increase reliability, enhance comfort and convenience, improve accessibility etc.)
  • Capacity and speed improvements: not provided.
  • Other non-transit corridor improvements: not provided directly - only through the qualitative "goals" list (e.g. improve walking and wheeling amenities)
  • Cost: $50 million (includes all short and medium-term projects) Funding has been provided through the Green Line LRT project.
  • Other information provided: map of route and stations (not transit-branded nor a map used by end users), lots of background on public engagement, a ton of construction information and detailed technical terms about specific construction steps (e.g. for some reason the public needs to know when and why the "pavement milling and overlay" step occurs) etc.

For comparison, here's the level of information available for a similar BRT project from Translink in Surrey. All of this is super easy to read and find:
https://www.translink.ca/plans-and-projects/projects/bus-projects/r6-scott-road-rapidbus
  • Service level expected for transit users: high-frequency, limited-stop bus service every 7.5 minutes during peak hours and 15 minutes during off-peak from 5 a.m. to 1 a.m. on weekdays and 6 a.m. to 1 a.m. on weekends.
  • Infrastructure and operations improvements: features sheltered stops, accessible loading areas, all-door boarding, real-time information, and accessibility features such as text-to-audio functionality of the digital bus arrival information and tactile pads.
  • Capacity and speed improvements: R6 RapidBus improves bus trips on the Scott Road corridor by up to 10 minutes in each direction. With 60-foot articulated buses, the R6 RapidBus provides more space for 20 per cent more riders on the busiest corridor south of the Fraser River.
  • Other non-transit corridor improvements: Street changes have also been implemented to enhance safety. This includes adding new crosswalks, protected left turn lanes, signal improvements, and allowance for making U-turns at selected locations.
  • Cost: $33 million investment was delivered jointly by TransLink, the City of Surrey, and the City of Delta
  • Other information provided: map of route and stations (Translink-branded like a user map), a summary video of the project and benefits, FAQ

The frustrating part is Calgary's page provides way more information and is much longer - it's just entirely not useful to explain the project, the benefits, and the end user impacts to transit users. I support the project and want it to succeed and want to advocate for more transit, but we rarely get any information that can help anyone do this or even understand what benefits are being created. Just tell me some quantified facts about the improvements - $50M is too big of number to not know all the other numbers!
Click to expand...
Do we know if the Centre street BRT is going to be a new MAX line (and colour)? Or will it still be route 301?
 
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