Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 113 68.5%
  • No

    Votes: 42 25.5%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.1%

  • Total voters
    165
I find the discourse around the lack of SP/Stam Trail development very amusing. The city changes the LRT station/overpass/17ave connection, opens BMO...and within a year we see new proposals surrounding it...not before they were completed. This really isn't any different. The Rivers Plan has barely started....still need the bus barns removed, underpass completed, stampede trail completed, the arena is still ~2 years away....but everything you would need in assisting development (foot traffic at night/day, proper street plan, LRT connections) is going to be there. A massive construction site does not assist in selling a development...the finished product does

One of these days it'll happen! We just need to be patient.

I for one am still waiting on this 1989 proposal from a *West German* consortium to build a hotel at the Stampede Grounds. It's a smart play by these guys, really takes advantage of the new and shiny infrastructure in the area in the last 10 years, such as the Saddledome (1983), Round-Up Exhibition Centre, (1981) and LRT (1981). Sure construction was a pain, but with a brand new arena, exhibition centre and rapid transit station the area is poised to take off!


1762982238271.png


Arguing about why Victoria Park and Stampede redevelopment isn't happening fast enough is a Calgary tradition going back at least 50 years of failed proposal after failed proposal. We aren't going to stop arguing about it now!
 
I think it's mostly that outside of the Stampede or events at BMO / Saddledome, the area is a ghost town. It's also been a skid row type area for some time now, so not a lot of interest in developing there when there are better areas.
 
I think it's mostly that outside of the Stampede or events at BMO / Saddledome, the area is a ghost town. It's also been a skid row type area for some time now, so not a lot of interest in developing there when there are better areas.

They're building condo towers in front of the DIC. You'd think being the other side of the tracks from there would at least help this area out. Arriva's built. Too bad Lamb's Orchard project was too far ahead of its time.
 
Really bizarre to me that there's this much trouble building in Victoria Park. Is the Stampede board that dysfunctional?
There's a ton of history here that predates internet development forums.

The Stampede v. Victoria Park redevelopment was a major (by local civic standards) issue for much of the 1970s, 1980s and early 1990s - regular articles in the Herald for years and years about the ebbs and flows of debate. It was the rezoning for housing debate of its time, or the Glenmore Landing saga, but went on for decades.

At issue was two broad trends.

First, was the relative decline and stagnation of the inner city. Largely it was stagnant or shirking in population and lack of re-investment was becoming a big issue in many areas. Victoria Park was declining and becoming shabby, poorer and an increasingly forgotten corner of the suburb-obsessed city.

Second, while the inner city stagnated the rapid suburban growth and downtown corporate boosterism became in vogue. This began to displace smaller, more local forms of economic advocacy, resulting in broad reordering of city land uses, infrastructure, politics and development culture. This is where the attitude was born that downtown is a place only for offices, a place for commuters, a place for others to visit usually by car (but not necessarily live) came from.

The Stampede and Olympics rode on this big economic/political wave of suburbanization and downtown reorganization. With endless growth and big city-boosting schemes in vogue, the need for more exhibition space was strong. The Stampede slowly and incrementally started to eat into Victoria Park, replacing housing with more event infrastructure and parking. Who would miss this dilapidated, run down part of Calgary anyways?

So began a very made-in-Calgary version of a slum-clearing urban renewal type scheme, with Stampede and event infrastructure driving the case for renewal.

Problem was Victoria Park wasn’t empty as it is today, it had thousands of people living there and began to hate seeing their neighbourhood encroached by ever expanding event district footprint. The saga played out over a few decades of competing visions for the area, where Stampede pressed for expansion and big scale events, while the community resisted and proposed alternatives developed schemes like high density apartments and social housing. Politics became involved and various plans and proposals came and went over 2 decades.

The end effect was ironically what neither party really wanted. The neighbourhood was slowly dissolved to make way for the Stampede, however it took so long the Stampede's expansion really became obsolete, their expansion plans kind of fizzled out after reaching the current boundaries about 30 years ago ( they for decades wanted all of Victoria Park).

Turns out boosters aren’t good at estimating growth and demand - stampede attendance was plateauing right as this big battle for expansion began. While too late for Victoria Park, after a while general push back was growing that started to question the need for tax-payer funded expansion in the first place, especially when no real clear vision of what makes the expansion so needed can be presented (is lots of more parking lots really the best we can do?)

But as it relates to development - this long story is largely why nothing happened. The interplay between the competing visions for the area and city-endorsed Stampede expansion meant that urban development was iced out. Way easier to build apartments somewhere else without all the drama, politics and risks of being gobbled up by stampede one day. Victoria Park languished, missing the redevelopment boom that saved all the other struggling inner city communities of the 1980s.

The great irony is by trying to do so many big plans and schemes here, we have actually ended up with less of a neighbourhood than we started!
 
Last edited:
The neighbourhood was slowly dissolved to make way for the Stampede, however it took so long the Stampede's expansion really became obsolete, their expansion plans kind of fizzled out after reaching the current boundaries about 30 years ago
Wasn't it more like 20? I remember houses in Vic Park, and a real 13 and 14 Ave that didn't just dead end into parking, until like 2007.
 
Wasn't it more like 20? I remember houses in Vic Park, and a real 13 and 14 Ave that didn't just dead end into parking, until like 2007.
Well, and the unfortunate reality is...in many/many middle class neighborhoods across canada built in the 1910-1940 period...the houses/buildings dont age well. Cheaply constructed, difficult to renovate...so most are just knocked down over time. Those last few houses you mention...sketchy. VP got caught being bordered by tracks on one side, the stampede on the other, and encroaching downtown to the west...pretty hard to maintain a "neighborhood" with those elements.
 
Well, and the unfortunate reality is...in many/many middle class neighborhoods across canada built in the 1910-1940 period...the houses/buildings dont age well. Cheaply constructed, difficult to renovate...so most are just knocked down over time. Those last few houses you mention...sketchy. VP got caught being bordered by tracks on one side, the stampede on the other, and encroaching downtown to the west...pretty hard to maintain a "neighborhood" with those elements.
There are several lessons out of Victoria Park and Stampede saga.

A big lesson is to be cautiously skeptical of booster claims. History has taught us this - all that effort and public money for decades, endless Council debates, plan after plan all to expand Stampede into Victoria Park, it really didn't amount to ... anything.

Turns out Stampede's plans were never particularly implementable or thought through so they didn't happen, despite the neighbourhood effectively being destroyed to make way for them. The cost of the failed plans are not just the loss of old Victoria Park, they ironically prevented the new neighbourhood from emerging (so far at least).

This is all obvious to anyone - pretty much every other inner city area has seen a resurgence and redevelopment boom over this time period, Victoria Park being the standout laggard explicitly because of Stampede and event district efforts. It's a great irony that may have been preventable had different decisions been made and more rigour placed on these schemes to see if they actually were going to work before tearing down a community.

This doesn't mean that history has to repeat itself. Perhaps the new plans are more thoughtful, the new arena and exhibition centre are truly state-of-the-art world-class and will remain fully booked for years, with big successful events, the new infrastructure investments are smarter, there's a greater recognition of mixed use and housing as critical parts, and more effort is being placed practical implementation. Perhaps Calgary is ready as a city for 2 million people to actually build a thriving, vibrant 24/7/365 event district. I really hope so!

But until I see all that private housing and mixed use development physically happening (not just renderings and plans), I will always remain skeptical of arena and exhibition schemes.
 
The steel is flying! I was at an event a few weeks ago where it was revealed that the building envelope will be complete in a year - ie the building will be fully enclosed and exterior largely complete!
 
There are several lessons out of Victoria Park and Stampede saga.

A big lesson is to be cautiously skeptical of booster claims. History has taught us this - all that effort and public money for decades, endless Council debates, plan after plan all to expand Stampede into Victoria Park, it really didn't amount to ... anything.

Turns out Stampede's plans were never particularly implementable or thought through so they didn't happen, despite the neighbourhood effectively being destroyed to make way for them. The cost of the failed plans are not just the loss of old Victoria Park, they ironically prevented the new neighbourhood from emerging (so far at least).

This is all obvious to anyone - pretty much every other inner city area has seen a resurgence and redevelopment boom over this time period, Victoria Park being the standout laggard explicitly because of Stampede and event district efforts. It's a great irony that may have been preventable had different decisions been made and more rigour placed on these schemes to see if they actually were going to work before tearing down a community.

This doesn't mean that history has to repeat itself. Perhaps the new plans are more thoughtful, the new arena and exhibition centre are truly state-of-the-art world-class and will remain fully booked for years, with big successful events, the new infrastructure investments are smarter, there's a greater recognition of mixed use and housing as critical parts, and more effort is being placed practical implementation. Perhaps Calgary is ready as a city for 2 million people to actually build a thriving, vibrant 24/7/365 event district. I really hope so!

But until I see all that private housing and mixed use development physically happening (not just renderings and plans), I will always remain skeptical of arena and exhibition schemes.
Very valid. I think we can all agree though, this Rivers Plan is VERY different than anything attempted over the past 50 years. The Saddledome had no redeeming qualities around the exterior, certainly no street presence. It isnt enough to just build a arena, they need to add to the street presence. At street level, SP acts like any other development with plazas, restaurants, shops... But most importantly, It's part of a properly laid out grid with connections in all directions. Once those infrastructure pieces are in place, it literally has anything/everything you would need.

I do think however, the success of Rivers may come at the expense of a completed East Village.
 

Back
Top