Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 67.3%

  • No

    Votes: 40 26.1%

  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.5%
  • Total voters
    153
I'm sure Bettman would make veiled threats but I don't think many of those are viable markets for relocation. Atlanta failed (twice now). SLC and KC aren't substantially bigger markets and already have other pro sports franchises (one could argue that at 2 million or so, KC would be oversaturated with pro sports if given an NHL team). Plus, the NHL is a gate driven league so TV market size is not as important as it is for the other pro leagues. The only obvious market that I see as a slam dunk for an NHL team soon is Houston - a big market and a built in rivalry for the Stars.

Besides which, there are a lot of teams in much worse shape. Winnipeg is averaging less than 13,000 fans a game and plays in a market half Calgary's size. Phoenix is playing in a 5000 seat arena and doesn't even seem to be able to sell that out. The Sabres and Sharks are suffering attendance woes. Ottawa, in a mid size market not unlike Calgary's somehow survived an owner who alienated the fans, a poorly located arena 20 miles from downtown and an on ice product that was positively awful for years. I don't doubt the threat would be floated but I think the chances of the Flames relocating would be minimal for a long time - there are a number of other candidates ahead of us in line.

Anyways, all theoretical debate since the arena deal is now done. I'm glad we are getting a new arena and just want to get it built, but more for the reason that we'll be able to host better events than seeing it as an imminent risk of losing the team.
 
Albertasaurus said:
I'm sure Bettman would make veiled threats but I don't think many of those are viable markets for relocation. Atlanta failed (twice now). SLC and KC aren't substantially bigger markets and already have other pro sports franchises (one could argue that at 2 million or so, KC would be oversaturated with pro sports if given an NHL team). Plus, the NHL is a gate driven league so TV market size is not as important as it is for the other pro leagues. The only obvious market that I see as a slam dunk for an NHL team soon is Houston - a big market and a built in rivalry for the Stars.

Besides which, there are a lot of teams in much worse shape. Winnipeg is averaging less than 13,000 fans a game and plays in a market half Calgary's size. Phoenix is playing in a 5000 seat arena and doesn't even seem to be able to sell that out. The Sabres and Sharks are suffering attendance woes. Ottawa, in a mid size market not unlike Calgary's somehow survived an owner who alienated the fans, a poorly located arena 20 miles from downtown and an on ice product that was positively awful for years. I don't doubt the threat would be floated but I think the chances of the Flames relocating would be minimal for a long time - there are a number of other candidates ahead of us in line.

Anyways, all theoretical debate since the arena deal is now done. I'm glad we are getting a new arena and just want to get it built, but more for the reason that we'll be able to host better events than seeing it as an imminent risk of losing the team.
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All the arguments don’t really matter if the arena is actually falling apart.

both sides had leverage and red lines.

could a better (as in fewer public dollars) arena and deal been had if we knew what we knew now in 2018? Heck yes.

I just hope with the investment the sight lines are as good as Vegas. The new arenas I don’t know what exactly it is, the setbacks and angles result in a much better experience.
 
darwink said:
All the arguments don’t really matter if the arena is actually falling apart.

both sides had leverage and red lines.

could a better (as in fewer public dollars) arena and deal been had if we knew what we knew now in 2018? Heck yes.

I just hope with the investment the sight lines are as good as Vegas. The new arenas I don’t know what exactly it is, the setbacks and angles result in a much better experience.
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I do agree that a "the arena is falling apart" argument would have helped frame the project in a way that would attract much more public support. As it is now, rightly or wrongly the perception for many is one of taxpayer subsidies to millionaire hockey players and billionaire team owners.
 
My recollection as a layman who doesn't really follow this except for news coverage is that the Dome was considered outdated and inadequate, for example the roof supports couldn't handle modern lighting/sound rigs for concerts, and the dressing rooms were small and had communal showers. I was also aware of the desire to make a new arena the centrepiece of a new "entertainment district" (which I personally think is not destined for success). I never heard any serious messaging that the Dome was falling apart or in need of major repair, only comments on the level of "lol it's old" and "it's a barn".
 
badc0ffee said:
My recollection as a layman who doesn't really follow this except for news coverage is that the Dome was considered outdated and inadequate, for example the roof supports couldn't handle modern lighting/sound rigs for concerts, and the dressing rooms were small and had communal showers. I was also aware of the desire to make a new arena the centrepiece of a new "entertainment district" (which I personally think is not destined for success). I never heard any serious messaging that the Dome was falling apart or in need of major repair, only comments on the level of "lol it's old" and "it's a barn".
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The numbers here are old and for a limited term-until 2030. Not comparable numbers to keeping it going until 2040 or 50.
 
I remember with the 2019 edition of the building, there were rumors of the design renderings floating around the forum before any were officially released.

Are there any insider rumors this time around? Or have they locked that down? I would assume if they want the building to be open in time for the 2026-27 season (August 2026) the overall design should be near complete.

That's only 2.5 years from now.
 
My friend works with the Flames and has seen in the inside design of the arena. I think they were showing it to them before Christmas?

He said it seems similar to what Little Caesars Arena in Detroit will look like from the inside. Not sure about the outside tho.
 
konradiical said:
My friend works with the Flames and has seen in the inside design of the arena. I think they were showing it to them before Christmas?

He said it seems similar to what Little Caesars Arena in Detroit will look like from the inside. Not sure about the outside tho.
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I heard about that too, apparently guys like Rick Tulsie and Ryan Pike have all seen it. Sounds promising at least.
 
I'm assuming the interior designs they showed were updated renders from the 2019 design and were mostly just the arena bowl.
BTW if the step up in the lower bowl is still present in the new design there's another arena in the NHL with that same design: The Canada Life Centre in Winnipeg. It actually doesn't look quite as bad I thought it would.
 
BrandedBlue said:
I'm not a fan of the arena subsidy, but Salt Lake City just announced that they want an NHL expansion franchise and they have an arena that could accommodate NHL games. I bet they'd choose a relocated team over paying a $650 million+ expansion fee like Seattle.

If there was still no arena deal for Calgary, I'm sure Gary Bettman would be threatening council through the media that the NHL has a relocation partner ready to go in the next year or two. Plus, 32 teams seems like an ideal number for the NHL to stick with.
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The other owners would never allow a missed opportunity of a $650 million dollar expansion fee payment because Murray Edwards wants to move the team for greater profits. (Although we will never know what the profit margin is for CSEC because even though they are receving taxpayer money, they don't need to open up their books)

And like what has already been said, even if relocation of any franchsie was on the table, Calgary would be fifth highest at most on that list.
 
dazzlingdave88 said:
Although we will never know what the profit margin is for CSEC because even though they are receving taxpayer money, they don't need to open up their books
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The Flames themselves bring in a revenue of ~183 million with and operating profit of somewhere around 11 million IIRC, I don’t know about the rest of CSEC.
 
I saw some new renderings for the proposed arena in Saskatoon on SSP. It looks way better than the one that the Flames first proposed. Hoping for a much better design this time around and looking forward to the unveiling.
 
ShotArch said:
I heard about that too, apparently guys like Rick Tulsie and Ryan Pike have all seen it. Sounds promising at least.
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Yah CSEC had a employee yearly meeting in October that I wasn’t able to attend unfortunately (I do work at the dome)

The only thing I could tell you is to expect a large lower bowl. That’s it.
 
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