Scotia Place | 36.85m | 11s | CSEC | HOK

Do you support the proposal for the new arena?

  • Yes

    Votes: 103 67.3%
  • No

    Votes: 40 26.1%
  • Maybe

    Votes: 10 6.5%

  • Total voters
    153
I see no obvious concern about the sustainability, economic or urban planning outcomes of creating 2 competing, parking empire/entertainment/event districts, both fueled by large amounts of public subsidy 3kms apart in a city of under 2 million.

Sarcasm aside - it's always a good time for a reminder of the back-to-basics on what we are talking about here as I don't think anything has actually changed - we (the public) have always and continue to owe CSEC exactly zero.

We of course can choose to offer some subsidy in return for outcomes that are in the public's interest. I would argue that it's not in the public interest to give money at all - especially when the counterparty's position is closer to blackmail rather than arguing a co-benefit between private and public interests. But even if the amount of subsidy should be greater than zero and we can trust the party we are negotiating with, the public's bargaining position is still entirely one of strength - CSEC's job remains to prove to us what's in it for us.

The real issue here is how bad CSEC has been at this from the beginning - all their poor efforts have hardened the opposition to their project. Their approach is always a combo of lazily regurgitating every other North American arena deal promise from the playbook, combined with the usual vague threats to move the team and trying to leverage their sway with the municipal or provincial government. They don't care about West Village or Victoria Park, they only care about the subsidy they can extract - both in the upfront funding and the control of ongoing revenues. It's is all just another tired rehash designed to extract the maximum public subsidy possible.

If business was so bad here and so great somewhere else, they have had 3 municipal elections, an Olympic plebiscite, a few provincial ones that have told them their subsidy is very unpopular. Several oil booms and busts, all sorts of changes to the economy - surely these super smart billionaire group would have acted by now if business was better elsewhere? They won't because there is no where to go, or they would have done so already - the arena saga has been going on for 15 years now.

That's a nice thought; unfortunately, and I'm sure you know this, but the city is happily playing ball with CSEC. Sure, the city owes them nothing but it's a cost benefit analysis at this point. The city has a well regarded partner in CAA ICON at the negotiating table, I trust that they will get the best deal they can and present the city with options and the bang the city will get for its buck. I've resigned to the face the city isn't going to pay nothing, I just want something to be proud of that does some kind of city building (even if its make believe).
 
Good points. I think that's a fact that gets lost in this discussion.

CSEC is an incredibly inept organization.

They can't put out a consistently good product on the ice, and they can't negotiate an arena deal to save their lives.
For them it’s all about the individual greed/hoarding of wealth. Period. They could easily afford the best arena in the league. They choose not to.
 
If there is not some type of redesign in the negotiations then I hope the arena falls through. What they had proposed to build was absolute trash.
 
If there is not some type of redesign in the negotiations then I hope the arena falls through. What they had proposed to build was absolute trash.

If there is a redesign it will likely be even worse. Value engineers will replace the curved projection wall with EIFS stucco panels and some orange brick at the base.
 
There is no question this will become the cheapest, ugliest, and shittiest arena in the league. Things are too expensive now with inflation to do anything otherwise. They missed their window to truly build something spectacular years ago. We will basically be stuck with a tin shed for the next 50 years. Man I hate CSEC so much.
 
But at least it will have private showers in the locker rooms, and structural support for modern lighting and sound for concerts.

(Near as I can tell these are the only objective problems with the Saddledome as a building, and they must be super important to justify replacing the whole thing)
 
But at least it will have private showers in the locker rooms, and structural support for modern lighting and sound for concerts.

(Near as I can tell these are the only objective problems with the Saddledome as a building, and they must be super important to justify replacing the whole thing)
It is also near the end of its life without a multi-year renewal that could displace the team. How near? Can't say.
 
Looks like today's meeting didn't bring a lot of news:
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