Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 49 79.0%

  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 9 14.5%

  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Go with a BRT solution

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Total voters
    62
badc0ffee said:
A low-floor LRT would definitely work better on street sections like Centre St and (IIRC) Seton. No need for high platforms, and outside of that the vehicles just fit better on the street.

Even if they did use the existing high-floor vehicles, they'd still need to buy more and would need more rail yard space. The only difference would be that they would have the option of locating that yard on the existing red or blue lines, assuming space could be found.
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It would be nicer for on street, no doubt. But, you can do on street with high platforms - just need to be more creative with the design.
You would need to buy more of course, but less than low floor, since you can pool your spare trains with the existing fleet. You cannot do that if the trains cannot all run on the entire network.

There is a LOT of extra room at Oliver Bowen where you could put storage tracks and expand the building, at least for a phased fleet expansion.

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You can see how much more efficiently the land is used for the massive LRT line in West Toronto for the Eglinton Line, which is going to need well over 100 30 meter LRVs once it has been extended west.

ByeByeBaby said:
Furthermore, the lines don't connect, and the only place they pass they are at different elevations and in the middle of the downtown. Not great value to spend a billion dollars on a line connection to... not actually save any money on a rail yard, since you need to expand the existing facilities.

Also, what do people mean by the new line not using different train technology? Different from U2? From SD-160? From S200? We've already deployed three different train technologies on the existing high-floor lines. World hasn't ended.

The primary way to get more transit for less money is to disrupt road traffic, which has mostly been ruled out entirely, largely without discussion.
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A new track connection should *not* cost 1 billion dollars? It doesn't even need to be double track. You also do save money because as pointed out above CT has a substantial amount of land already. Maybe you still need to build a yard, but it could be far smaller.

What is meant by different technologies is just that, you listed three high floor LRVs (the same technology), a different technology has different technical standards etc.
 
superelevation said:
It would be nicer for on street, no doubt. But, you can do on street with high platforms - just need to be more creative with the design.
You would need to buy more of course, but less than low floor, since you can pool your spare trains with the existing fleet. You cannot do that if the trains cannot all run on the entire network.

There is a LOT of extra room at Oliver Bowen where you could put storage tracks and expand the building, at least for a phased fleet expansion.

View attachment 466780
View attachment 466782
You can see how much more efficiently the land is used for the massive LRT line in West Toronto for the Eglinton Line, which is going to need well over 100 30 meter LRVs once it has been extended west.


A new track connection should *not* cost 1 billion dollars? It doesn't even need to be double track. You also do save money because as pointed out above CT has a substantial amount of land already. Maybe you still need to build a yard, but it could be far smaller.

What is meant by different technologies is just that, you listed three high floor LRVs (the same technology), a different technology has different technical standards etc.
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Thing is where would you even connect the lines? This has already been discussed ad nauseum on SSP as well. You have to somehow cross the CP tracks (IMO grade sep would be essential because you don't want trains to be held up by 4 freight tracks and maybe even regional rail) and run along the street along with catenary wires for a track that would only used for equipment moves. The only solution to the interoperability problem is to go back to putting the SE line onto 7th Ave, and the north would still need a new tunnel and OMF anyways.

Eglinton is not too dissimilar in size to OBMF, CT just has an entirely indoor storage barn and some other work is done at Anderson. The Shepard OMF is similarly huge anyways, not gonna save much by building a connection and expanding OBMF just to have an inferior product on Centre Street.
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superelevation said:
A new track connection should *not* cost 1 billion dollars? It doesn't even need to be double track. You also do save money because as pointed out above CT has a substantial amount of land already. Maybe you still need to build a yard, but it could be far smaller.

What is meant by different technologies is just that, you listed three high floor LRVs (the same technology), a different technology has different technical standards etc.
Click to expand...

If you're running the same trains on the red, blue and green lines to save money by sharing garages, then you need some way that trains can drive between the lines to get to the garages. That's the connection that is required. It doesn't matter how much land CT does or doesn't have next to Metis Trail, they would either need to build a connection that connects red/blue above grade and green below grade track in the absolute middle of the downtown, or build some out-of-downtown connection, and at a minimum that **will** cost a billion dollars, whether there's one track or two.

Here's a question for you. Let's say I own a Toyota Prius sedan, a Toyota Highlander Hybrid SUV, and a gas-powered Volkswagen Jetta sedan. Do I take the Highlander to a garage for the SUV technology and the other two to the same sedan-technology mechanic? If not, why not?

There are a hundred technical systems inside a rail car; the height of the floor is only one of them. Actually, it's none of them; it's the result of a design that combines motors, brakes, bogies, controls, panels, etc.

There is a grain of truth in that there is an efficiency in operating a fleet of identical vehicles rather than a mix.That efficiency only goes so far; if we had two trains of one type and one of another and two of a third, there would be a benefit to ensuring we have five trains of the same model instead. But Calgary operates fleets of 50 to 80 vehicles of a given model; that's plenty large enough to get that increase in efficiency.
 
newsroom.calgary.ca

Calgary’s Light Rail Transit system: Past, Present and Future

A new display in the Calgary Municipal Building is bringing life to the history and future of Calgary’s CTrain system. The display, located on the west side of Council Chambers, showcases historical artifacts, photos, and maps of the Light Rail Transit (LRT) system since its inception in...
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1920_lrv-exterior14x8.5.jpg
 
Does the Green Line design consider an eventual 8th subway for the Red Line:
  • one underground line would need to pass underneath the other. Given that the Red Line will always be busier, it would make sense to have it more conveniently located closer to the surface, although geological factors could dictate otherwise. I hope that Green Line excavation would rough in whatever tunnel or station box would be required, as adding one later would be astronomically disruptive and expensive
  • the 7th Ave SW Green line station could become the hub of the entire network, joining the 8th Ave Red Line and 7th Ave Blue line. Again, I hope its design provisions that optionality: i.e. walkway connections, platform widths, entrances etc.
The Green Line has already been scope creeped to death, but this is perhaps the most important consideration
 
DougB said:
Does the Green Line design consider an eventual 8th subway for the Red Line:
  • one underground line would need to pass underneath the other. Given that the Red Line will always be busier, it would make sense to have it more conveniently located closer to the surface, although geological factors could dictate otherwise. I hope that Green Line excavation would rough in whatever tunnel or station box would be required, as adding one later would be astronomically disruptive and expensive
  • the 7th Ave SW Green line station could become the hub of the entire network, joining the 8th Ave Red Line and 7th Ave Blue line. Again, I hope its design provisions that optionality: i.e. walkway connections, platform widths, entrances etc.
The Green Line has already been scope creeped to death, but this is perhaps the most important consideration
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Money is no object: Maybe do a little new Penn Station thing right here with Brookfield's sister tower and that little "green" space in the NW corner of the intersection.
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From the website:

"This announcement launches the Development Phase, that will allow for collaboration, design progression, and agreement on project costs, risks, and overall schedule between Green Line and BTC, before signing a Project Agreement. As part of negotiations, Green Line agreed to extend the Development Phase from approximately 12 months to 16 months to allow for greater design progression and cost certainty. The Implementation Phase remains on track to begin in 2024."

The delays keep coming... Granted should still start in 2024.
 
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