Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

RyLucky said:
Many European and a few American stations do it well too. All I'm looking for is a seamless integration with built form, retail, and pedestrian corridors in all 4 compass directions in 3 dimensions. Too much to ask?

Here's a quick link to give you an idea of what metro stations are like in many parts of the world - "station" is synonymous with "mall", even in distant suburbs and smaller cities:
http://web-japan.org/trends/09_lifestyle/lif110120.html

What I (cynically) expect we'll get is a concrete stair and tunnel with only 1 or 2 entrances. Really, a station under 2nd St between 7th and 9th Ave could have as many as 12 entrance (or 6 split entrances), and direct connections to the future 8th Ave subway, 7th Ave ctrain corridor, CORE shopping, and possibly interior connections to other private properties. AND, the corridor and platforms should enable retail, food vendors, buskers, and public art. This really ought be the model for a future downtown stations (especially GreenLine Eau Claire, Green Stephen Ave, Red 5th St, Red 2nd Ave, Red Olympic Plaza - speculating on station names) and any future TOD projects. Imagine restaurants, shops, fitness facilities/gyms, daycares, and office lobbies right at the edge of the platform. And, most importantly, unimpeded connection from one mode of travel to another in any direction.

One reason I really like the way 7th Ave is set up is that there are no barriers (stairs, doors, tunnels, turnstiles, narrow corridors) to access the platform. But while it's easy for an at-grade station to blend seamlessly with the city, Calgarians might not realize some of the problems that commonly irk the success of underground stations (crowds, minutes added to commutes waiting in lines, poor ventilation, poor handicap access, poor lines of vision, perception of danger, poor lighting, poor pedestrian environments at grade, etc).

We've learned a lot since Toronto opened its subway in 1954 (and expanded in 1966); London's Tube has been a work in progress since 1863, Paris's Metro since 1900, and NYC Subway since 1904. Other cities hold Paris, NYC, and London as examples of successful metropolises - and there are many admirable things about these cities - but technology, design, and democratic capitalism has changed a lot since these systems were built. Calgary was right to build an at-grade LRT in the '80s, rather than trying to be Montreal or Toronto. Now that the benefits of grade separation are beginning to outweigh the cost of cut-and-cover in Calgary, it's only natural that Calgary build a subway, but let's build one for 2050, not 1950. Yes, it could be a lot of work and innovation for zoning (a la bonus density) and persuading adjacent properties to buy in, but having a plan and regulations developers can count on would be a start. It would be especially great if we figured this out before the 2nd Brookfield tower is built, if it's not too late already.

All this flexibility, integration, and access is made easier by Calgary's free fare zone and progressive honour-system boarding. Let's lead, not follow.
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Well put RyLucky. If we are going to put big bucks into this, let's do this right. Like you said, we have other metros to learn from, let's do something better than a concrete tunnel with a concrete staircase.
 
Some Greenline news. It looks like the city is narrowing down the allignment choice to 12th Ave. It will either be a Surface + Tunnel which will remain tunneled until after 5th Street SE or a Surface Only option with will come to grade at 2nd Street and 10th Ave SW, turn onto 12th Ave SW and continue along that route until exiting the centre of of the city swooping North of the East Village bus barn.

Now for some editorial. It's gotta be the Surface + Tunnel. It's respectful on commuters, residents and visitors to the Beltline and Stampede grounds. It preserves the exisiting road capacity and adds new transit capacity. It adds a new station near the grounds where one is sorely needed and it provides a good focal point for the future development of the SE corner of the city centre. The Surface Only option would add to delays on MacLeod while snarling 12th avenue to a single lane at best and pushing car traffic onto a re-routed 11th and 10th aves. The Surface option is "nominally" the cheap or the two in that it has a lower up-front cost compared to tunnelling, but I think the damage it would do to the city's transit infrastructure would be considerably more costly over time. There's my two cents. That and $3.50 will get you a small coffee. ;)


Additionally, the Federal Liberals have reiterated their $1.53B committment to the Greenline that was originally put forward by the previous Conservative Government in the summer of 2015.

Nice to know it's still getting official support with the change of government. Here's hoping that the project is able to move forward in stages with the combined civic and federal commitments. It could be a long wait nothing happens before provincial money is forthcoming, but cause at this rate, it won't be.
 
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Can't wait to find out what option the city is choosing early next year. The Beltline is the last portion that needs to be determined. I hope it's underground as long as possible. It would also be nice if they moved the station from Centre Street to as close to the 2nd street turn as possible. I just think it would be so nice to get out of the subway and be at Central Memorial Park, a great urban experience.
 
UrbanWarrior said:
Can't wait to find out what option the city is choosing early next year. The Beltline is the last portion that needs to be determined. I hope it's underground as long as possible. It would also be nice if they moved the station from Centre Street to as close to the 2nd street turn as possible. I just think it would be so nice to get out of the subway and be at Central Memorial Park, a great urban experience.
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I think you've got a fair argument for having a station near Central Memorial Park, but I really like the idea of having one as near the Calgary Tower as possible. (If only they could do something about that ugly parkade and open the tower on both sides...) My hope is that some future line will come down Second of Fourth Streets SW and down into mission. Maybe if they're smart, they'll rough in a bit of the straight stretch at Second St & Tenth Ave SW for a future subway tunnel to this effect. However, if the recent revelations regarding the Mount Royal University C-Train spur is any indication I shouldn't hold my breath.

According to the website, we're supposed to find out this month about the alignment recommendation.
 
Yes the recommendation but not the final decision.
 
They won't be making the final decision on the recommendation until the spring. The full green line alignment recommendation then gets submitted in June.
 
Bummer. I'll have to get back to praying that they've recommended the tunnel option. Thanks.
 
There was a pretty major Herald article this morning. It sounds as though the city is moving towards building the Green line in phases rather than as a one shot. The first and most major phase would run the stretch from Beddington to Shepard Road. Here's a map:

upload_2017-2-13_11-25-3.png


The big losers appear to be the people in the South East. Most of the stations to be built later are in their neck of the woods.

The main driver for this is funding. The province has still only committed a small amount of the requested $1.5B. And the cost estimates for the line as a whole are probably above the $4.5B according to the article. The new estimate is $5.8B to $6.7B.

Additionally and of grater concern, the potential for higher cost could mean less stations through the central portion of the line. Eau Claire and Centre Street (in he beltline) could be delayed and 9th ave and 16th ave North of the river could be merged into a single station.

The article is also pushing ahead the start date to mid-2019. I believe Fall 2018 was put forward sometime last year.

In all it's disappointing, but not surprising. The west leg of the Blue Line came it at nearly $2B for a little over 8km of track. I know that involved a large elevated portion and a good deal of tunneling, but nowhere near as much as the Green Line calls for, and then add in the fact that the Green line is 5 to 6 times as long, there's no way they were going to keep it at two and a half times the cost. I'm happy with the decision to phase the construction, becuase that means getting more sooner, but I really hope they don't leave too much of the downtown portion unbuilt. Skipping the lone Beltine station in the first phase seems like an utterly bizarre decision to me.
 

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I wonder how much debate there will be over the phasing locations (what is in the first phase, and what is in following phases). I understand that the Shepard station is pretty much set, as that is where the car's maintenance facility is planned. While it may seem bizarre to skip a Beltline station in this first phase, I bet there will be huge howls from SE residents who say it is bizarre to leave the McKenzie Town station out of the first phase.
 
If I lived in the South East I'd be livid at the announcement. But of course, as some one who communtes downtown, I'd never live in the South East to begin with. Cheaper housing costs isn't enough to lure me into that sub-urban hell hole.

I read the part about the maintenance facility being in Shepard, so that makes sense. I think I'd rather see the city push out and finish one end (99% chance of that being the North) rather than do bit by bit in one direction. It'll piss of the people in the south, but they should probably look at moving to Panorama then anyway.
 
Oddball said:
There was a pretty major Herald article this morning. It sounds as though the city is moving towards building the Green line in phases rather than as a one shot. The first and most major phase would run the stretch from Beddington to Shepard Road. Here's a map:

View attachment 98797

The big losers appear to be the people in the South East. Most of the stations to be built later are in their neck of the woods.

The main driver for this is funding. The province has still only committed a small amount of the requested $1.5B. And the cost estimates for the line as a whole are probably above the $4.5B according to the article. The new estimate is $5.8B to $6.7B.

Additionally and of grater concern, the potential for higher cost could mean less stations through the central portion of the line. Eau Claire and Centre Street (in he beltline) could be delayed and 9th ave and 16th ave North of the river could be merged into a single station.

The article is also pushing ahead the start date to mid-2019. I believe Fall 2018 was put forward sometime last year.

In all it's disappointing, but not surprising. The west leg of the Blue Line came it at nearly $2B for a little over 8km of track. I know that involved a large elevated portion and a good deal of tunneling, but nowhere near as much as the Green Line calls for, and then add in the fact that the Green line is 5 to 6 times as long, there's no way they were going to keep it at two and a half times the cost. I'm happy with the decision to phase the construction, becuase that means getting more sooner, but I really hope they don't leave too much of the downtown portion unbuilt. Skipping the lone Beltine station in the first phase seems like an utterly bizarre decision to me.
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I believe they are saying to Shepard Station - not Shepard Road - which would add 3 more stations to the South end of your phase map. This station is immediately north of the 130 AVE Box Mall, where they will be building the maintenance centre and a park & ride.

If they are to ax the Eau Claire & Centre ST stations - that would not only leave only 1 station Downtown, but also in the employment catchment of the line as there are also offices south of the tracks that would benefit from a Centre ST station. Notwithstanding the many people who live adjacent to those 2 stations.... I almost refuse to believe that they will do that...

That being said - I do think that phasing the project is the best way forward, and I also somewhat expected this to be the case, with almost the exact same scope. The only difference I would make would be to add even 1 more station South to MacKenzie Towne to service that area. The Prestwick station could be a potential add-in for future phases.
 
Ah yeah good call. I misunderstood what they meant by Shepard.

Yeah, that seemed like a bonkers idea to me too. I think it's just an idea that's been presented to council and it's probably "a la carte" if they decide to do something like that. So they could say postpone just one of the the proposed stations if they saw fit.

Given how I made a mistake, I've had to reformulate my opinion. I agree that going as far as MacKenzie town makes sense.
 
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