Thanks. I definitely remembered that wrong.Ford has his faults but to say this was purely a provincial decision is wrong. City council voted for this in 2016, two years before he came to power.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3676433
Thanks. I definitely remembered that wrong.Ford has his faults but to say this was purely a provincial decision is wrong. City council voted for this in 2016, two years before he came to power.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3676433
Maybe this is not the right kind of thinking but I thought about this like the beginning of Stoney Trail on the east side of the city. Sure it was a freeway to nowhere when the first section was done but as the different sections were built out it made sense. This was horribly sold to other orders of government and to the people of Calgary.Well Calgary’s plan honestly turned into a joke. I’m entirely unsurprised that the province pulled funding.
It truly was the definition of a train to nowhere. It serviced nobody, and I doubt it would get anywhere near the 30k ridership that the city was projecting.
It makes more sense from a financial and service stand point, to extend the Red Line to 210 Ave and the Blue Line further North. Both extensions would get better ridership than those joke of a Green Line the city decided to go with.
Segment 3 of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_(Honolulu) is one I can think of.Has any city built an elevated transit system downtown recently?
I think the "Ford" that @badc0ffee was referring to was Mayor Rob Ford, who tanked the "Transit City" LRT plan developed under Mayor David Miller, which had federal and provincial support. John Tory followed Rob Ford's "subways, subways, subways" campaign message. The province (under the Liberals at the time) basically took their cue from the City of Toronto, but refused to provide any additional money. More reason why the provincial government is better placed to take the lead on transit.Ford has his faults but to say this was purely a provincial decision is wrong. City council voted for this in 2016, two years before he came to power.
You misunderstand my point. What I'm saying is that the PCs (and Liberals, and NDP) all compete with each other to get the votes of suburban Torontonians. That has made regional transportation planning a major area of competition at the provincial level. That's a good thing! I'm glad Ford is investing in mass transit! It wasn't always this way. In the 80s, 90s, and 2000s, transit was seen as an "urban voter" issue that none of the parties cared that much about, and it fell almost completely to the municipal government to take the lead.You’d be glad to hear the Ontario line runs from Don Valley East (61- Liberal) to Exhibition (65-NDP) and the entire line serves non-PC represented areas.
There’s plenty to criticize Ontario PC and the UCP as well that there’s no need to make up criticism because they fit a conservative caricature
Downtown section won't be done for a bit... but good to know we're not alone in our misery.Segment 3 of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_(Honolulu) is one I can think of.
Interestingly, Honolulu project phased things the way that the UCP and anti-Green Line folks have been saying - do the easy suburban part first, don't worry about the downtown until later. Problem is transit in suburbs isn't connecting anything to anything - you need that key core downtown part for the whole thing to make sense. As in most places, the urban core part will be the most technically complicated and expensive, but also where the whole value proposition resides for transit projects.Downtown section won't be done for a bit... but good to know we're not alone in our misery.
Segment 3: City Center
[edit]
The third phase of the route, the 3.3 mi (5.3 km) City Center section terminating at Kaʻākaukukui station, may be completed under a public-private partnership (PPP). It is estimated the City Center section will cost $1.6 billion to complete.[160] Under the proposed PPP, the City Center section would be procured under a design-build-finance-operate-maintain (DBFOM) contract, which would award the successful bidder the right to operate and maintain the entire system for a period of 25 years after completing the City Center section. The City of Honolulu would retain oversight over operations and maintenance, public information, and responsibility for fare vending and enforcement.[161] A contract for $400 million to clear utilities in the City Center section was awarded in May 2018.[80]
HART issued a request for proposals (RFP) for the DBFOM contract for the City Center Guideway and Stations section in late 2018[162] and announced it had received proposals from several bidders by July 2020.[163] However, the bids for the construction of the City Center Guideway and Stations significantly exceeded HART's cost estimates, at $2.7 billion compared to the $1.4 billion estimate,[164] and HART officially discontinued pursuing a PPP approach to completing the City Center section in November 2020.[165] The bids for the operation and maintenance portion of the contract (ranging from $4.2 to $5.3 billion) were closer to the estimate ($4.95 billion).[164] On December 14, 2020, HART issued a request for information, asking for input from the construction industry for the best way to structure a RFP that would receive realistic bids. It is expected that this contract will be awarded and subsequently, construction will begin for the six stations and guideway in August 2024.[166][124]
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Of note... the Honolulu thing seems to have too much in common with the Green Line.
HART Scrambles To Free Up Cash For Rail's Push Into The City Center
Other work may be delayed because a $1.66 billion bid was $300 million more than the rail authority had budgeted.www.civilbeat.org
And if you're looking for elevated low floor (not downtown), you only have to look up the QE2.
Good to look at what they scope in, and out. Plenty of projects world wide are reusing existing rail corridors for new purposes, not new ones, without costing that value. Pretty common to report after offsetting the reported cost with fare revenue? (operationally freestanding with partial capital contribution).I’m curious why building metro or LRT systems here is so costly. For instance, a short segment costing $6 billion seems excessive. In Sydney, Australia, they’re constructing 66 km of line for 11 billion CAD, which is much cheaper. It seems like similar projects around the world don’t have such high costs. What’s driving the price up here?
I've been on the ones in KL and Miami. Both didn't seem oppressive from the street level, and were hardly noticeable to be honest but they're also accompanied by a fair bit of jungle like foliage.Has any city built an elevated transit system downtown recently? I'm curious what the streetscape under them is like. Everyone knows the classic Chicago and Brooklyn streets, has it improved since?
Good comparable, elevated would be a good opportunity to do something under the line. 1st Street would suit it well.I've been on the ones in KL and Miami. Both didn't seem oppressive from the street level, and were hardly noticeable to be honest but they're also accompanied by a fair bit of jungle like foliage.
Interestingly, Honolulu project phased things the way that the UCP and anti-Green Line folks have been saying - do the easy suburban part first, don't worry about the downtown until later. Problem is transit in suburbs isn't connecting anything to anything - you need that key core downtown part for the whole thing to make sense. As in most places, the urban core part will be the most technically complicated and expensive, but also where the whole value proposition resides for transit projects.
Segment 1 of the Green Line is shovel ready. The procurement process will move forward with the Request for Qualifications shortlisted proponents to be announced in June 2020, and the Request for Proposal to be issued no later than July 24, 2020. Given Segment 1 will be delivered as a design build finance project, the proponent teams will be bidding on the project starting on July 24, 2020 however, the detailed design and construction will begin in 2021.