Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

[badc0ffee]

I have a feeling that ridership on this stub-way will drop off hard south of Inglewood.

Like Sunnyside, I think Inglewood will have a mix of residents (which should increase with ToD), and people just visiting the neighbourhood for food, drink, music, trips to the Esker, etc.

Also I noticed that https://maps.calgary.ca/greenline/ is still showing 4 St SE underground, still has Centre Street, and still shows the stations south of Lynnwood.

 

[ahuch]

I have a feeling that ridership on this stub-way will drop off hard south of Inglewood.

Like Sunnyside, I think Inglewood will have a mix of residents (which should increase with ToD), and people just visiting the neighbourhood for food, drink, music, trips to the Esker, etc.

Also I noticed that https://maps.calgary.ca/greenline/ is still showing 4 St SE underground, still has Centre Street, and still shows the stations south of Lynnwood.

It will, but I'm also assuming the city will try and re-jig current bus routes and force them to get on the train at Lynnwood. So in essence we may actually be making some of those express bus routes worse and multi-mode compared to today.

 

[whatchyyc]

I probably wouldn't mind. I bet it saves an enormous amount of time to loop around at Millican rather than roll around downtown in traffic

 

[Albertasaurus]

It'll be interesting to see if the projected ridership of ~32,000 people a day ends up being accurate. While a drop in the bucket by Calgary's ridership numbers, that's about equal to Phoenix's entire LRT network (42 km) and substantially higher than the ridership for the entire LRT networks in St Louis, Charlotte, San Jose, Pittsburgh and others. It blows my mind how low transit ridership is down in the US.

I am skeptical as to how many people will take an express bus to Lynnwood and then transfer to the train. In my admittedly anecdotal discussions with people, having to transfer is often a deal breaker when it comes to transit, as it adds substantially to the travel time (sometimes for real, sometimes perceived) - but enough to deter many riders. However, as others have outlined, at least this gets the core of the line built.

 

[Ramsayite]

Park and ride here is about 250x300ft of parking.

That's about 278 stalls by my math. Not a ton.

A bus transfer here will probably account for the greatest ridership. I think it's reasonable that a transfer would ultimately save time. Average speed on Ogden Rd is going to be much slower than the train, Plus some bottlenecks at blackfoot and then possible freight train interference if one is cutting through Ramsay.

In fact, the dedicated grade separated right-of-way over the south freight line is perhaps one of the most relevant facts about this project. It is possible to come via this route and get stuck at the nvrlnd or traffic circle crossing for 30 minutes in a car or bus. Or get jammed up on Blackfoot due to gridlock from the same. Green line will bypass that conflict.

 

[badc0ffee]

It will, but I'm also assuming the city will try and re-jig current bus routes and force them to get on the train at Lynnwood. So in essence we may actually be making some of those express bus routes worse and multi-mode compared to today.

You may be right. At least that station is on Ogden Road, which has decent connections to much of the SE, and is on the proper side of the Bow river.

Here's hoping we can at least go to McKenzie Towne in the first extension.

 

[ahuch]

Park and ride here is about 250x300ft of parking.

That's about 278 stalls by my math. Not a ton.

A bus transfer here will probably account for the greatest ridership. I think it's reasonable that a transfer would ultimately save time. Average speed on Ogden Rd is going to be much slower than the train, Plus some bottlenecks at blackfoot and then possible freight train interference if one is cutting through Ramsay.

In fact, the dedicated grade separated right-of-way over the south freight line is perhaps one of the most relevant facts about this project. It is possible to come via this route and get stuck at the nvrlnd or traffic circle crossing for 30 minutes in a car or bus. Or get jammed up on Blackfoot due to gridlock from the same. Green line will bypass that conflict.

That's fair, I can only speak to the fact that I live near one of the stations that was cut... I was contemplating taking the train downtown once built, but if I'm driving up Ogden Road (literally my commute today) I'm just going to keep going driving downtown. Everyone's different though.

 

[lemongrab]

I probably wouldn't mind. I bet it saves an enormous amount of time to loop around at Millican rather than roll around downtown in traffic

Only if your workplace is close to 2nd St SW. Otherwise a slow bus probably solves your last km problem just as fast.

 

[Ramsayite]

That's fair, I can only speak to the fact that I live near one of the stations that was cut... I was contemplating taking the train downtown once built, but if I'm driving up Ogden Road (literally my commute today) I'm just going to keep going driving downtown. Everyone's different though.

Oh my condolences. That sucks. I'd be pretty bummed out too.

 

[kempes_78]

This LiveWire Calgary article goes into greater detail than the other media reports I've seen.

Green Line LRT cut down in south Calgary to stay within the budget - LiveWire Calgary

Scope changes on the Green Line LRT mean that the line will end four stops south of downtown Calgary, with one station brought to grade and another deferred to a later date. That’s the decision that Calgary city councillors ultimately made at the start of their summer wrap-up meeting on July 30...

livewirecalgary.com

Of note are the quotes from Councilors Evan Spencer and Terry Wong (their wards are directly impacted by the Greenline).



So this confirms what I was thinking and hoping, that they will simultaneously be applying for funding to start the next phase that goes further south.


This is actually a really good point by Wong about building the chassis before the rest of the car. I appreciate a conservative stepping up to support the greenline and explain this reality.

For those with eyes and ears explore. Why has the project cost more for less structures? Poor cost control.

 

[kempes_78]

I think so. But the site won't pay for itself, so it really is cost decision. Same is when the city bought out Lilydale chicken. was it the cheapest choice, or just solves another file at the same time?

So, many things. There is the pure escalation. That exists for sure. Then there is scope creep, that existed for sure. Then less than optimal risk management. Then less than optimal procurement planning.

To try to make the plan better, there was lots of delay. Likely, waiting made the costs higher and the project worse than our current situation, but, it would seem very bad if had moved forward at the time and had lets say a $1 billion overage in the 16th Ave - Elbow River tunnel.

Don't think of things in isolation. There is sleight of hand afoot. How often was the estimate reviewed for accuracy? Once in a blue moon? Is the 90% design complete yet and ready for approval and the execution contract agreed? How are the Contractor relations and designer? Don't think so.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Well… wow. I missed some news. This is f*cked up. $6.2 billion for 7 stations, none of which are near densely populated areas? They even nixed Centre Street South Station, and that had the largest population within walking distance of it. Good lord what a shit show. I’ve lost faith now. Edmonton can do a major project and Calgary can’t?

 

[kempes_78]

This is still not a go yet, is it? The city is celebrating a nothing accomplishment again, this still requires and provincial and federal sign-off. We're getting close, no doubt but unless I'm not understanding correctly, no new work is starting anytime soon.

Still got 90% design to clear. What curve balls will be thrown? Is the execution agreement signed. Internal issues are far from finalised.

 

[Joborule]

I do understand that it sucks that the Centre Street Station in the Beltline is cut, but considering that the stations on 7 Avenue are still walkable distance to 17th Ave (including the eventual Green Line one), the Centre Street Station was a luxury rather than a need, and it being cut doesn't diminish the value of the line for Beltline residence that would want to head to the SE or North in the future.

 

[FCC1982]

Well… wow. I missed some news. This is f*cked up. $6.2 billion for 7 stations, none of which are near densely populated areas? They even nixed Centre Street South Station, and that had the largest population within walking distance of it. Good lord what a shit show. I’ve lost faith now. Edmonton can do a major project and Calgary can’t?

I’m not too sure about that:

The Valley Line is (finally) opening: Here's how we got to this point

Edmonton's Valley Line LRT is finally opening. Here's a look at how we got here.

edmontonjournal.com