Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

[whatchyyc]

I wonder how you would even manage an Ogden terminus? Maybe a small scale temporary OMF on the lilydale land
Not that I should even entertain the possibility LOL

 

[ahuch]

My guess is it's a rumour that conflates two issues where Council has likely been informed that Eau Claire to Shepard will cost $XX but that requires additional funding from provincial and federal governments that have shown zero interest in coming to the table so the plan B is that they could build Eau Claire to Ogden within the original project budget and that might just have to be good enough.

If that's the case, I'm okay with it. Get the costly, complicated downtown segment out of the way and then just start incremental extensions of the line to the north and to the south afterwards. Both the provincial and federal governments have said they are open to funding future expansions, just not more money for Stage 1. Plus it has the added middle finger of penalizing the UCP for not offering more money by holding the train back from the ridings in south east Calgary they won.

Building to Ogden would obliterate ridership.

 

[lemongrab]

Doesn't sound like its the case, but it would probably be better for the GL team if a ridiculous price tag and scope reduction rumour were floated out there, so that the actual adjustment doesn't seem so awful.

 

[accord1999]

It doesn't really make sense that parts of the city were confident for the Green Line that they could deliver 44 km for around $100 million a km a decade later.

It's funny how your back-of-the-napkin calculation yields a number that's probably not too far off from the correct figure. Yeah the experience from the West LRT and even Edmonton's Valley Line SE should have given them pause about being able to do it for <$5B.

And while we'll probably never get the answer, I do wonder why they had to be so ambitious in the first place by wanting to do all 40 km in a single phase? Something smaller, like even the "core" segment in one or two stages (similar to the Valley Line) would have probably been accepted and would have led to less grief since they wouldn't have to cut so many things over time.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Ideally yes. But it's advantageous to future proof our transit system for the next 100 years. I think a surface station at Eau Claire and a surface station at 4th street S.E. would be a decent compromise.

Construction should have commenced in 2018. It's very disappointing that it's taken this long. Build phase 1 from Shepard -> 4th street it's the easiest and cheapest section to build.

Even getting a section of the tunnel going, do Shepard to Centre Street South Station, then the riders are significantly closer to the employment centres of the core. I dunno. They should have phased it though and already be well underway on the 4 Street to Shepard section by now. It likely would already be opened, then figure out the core as they go.

 

[MichaelS]

Even getting a section of the tunnel going, do Shepard to Centre Street South Station, then the riders are significantly closer to the employment centres of the core. I dunno. They should have phased it though and already be well underway on the 4 Street to Shepard section by now. It likely would already be opened, then figure out the core as they go.

The concern with that strategy is you would have built a train from Shepard to 4th Street, but then realized you don't have enough money to extend it. So, spent significant dollars on an even less useful train, which would be an even larger drag on operating budgets (remember, even with the current plan, this is still projected to be a money loser to the tune of $40 million a year I think is the last we heard). So then what?

It is my understanding that this is why the Province stepped in when they did, to ensure that scenario didn't happen. Because the outcome would be, the City builds a train to nowhere, and then turns to the other levels of government and says "help!" and essentially holds them hostage for more money to actually make it useful. Seems the more responsible thing to do is to see how much the actual useful project really costs, to see if you can move forward, before starting.

 

[Nawads]

One thing to note I don't see anyone talking about. The federal government just announced there will be an extra 3 Billion per year available from 2026-2036 that cities/provinces can apply for. This could easily help with future green line extensions if we start building phase 1 now.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

One thing to note I don't see anyone talking about. The federal government just announced there will be an extra 3 Billion per year available from 2026-2036 that cities/provinces can apply for. This could easily help with future green line extensions if we start building phase 1 now.

That's contingent on the Province's rail plan. I can't recall the timeline on that... Could be some synergies though.

 

[darwink]

One thing to note I don't see anyone talking about. The federal government just announced there will be an extra 3 Billion per year available from 2026-2036 that cities/provinces can apply for. This could easily help with future green line extensions if we start building phase 1 now.

That money would be available has been known. Exactly what the program looked like has not been. But designing a program that Calgary could not access would be untenable.

Until things are announced people act like time stops after existing programs end and then act like it is a hard budget constraint and funding is a zero sum game.

Alas. Was ever thus. This next pot of money will build down to McKenzie Towne and up to 64th, and we will finish the 52nd st BRT.

 

[accord1999]

Well, Nelson has been around for a long time and he has to have gotten the $8 billion figure from somewhere, I wonder if someone on Council leaked it to him? I must admit, if the above is true is it really worth $8 billion for a line that only goes to Ogden? That's a huge cost to only serve a few neighbourhoods. Wasn't the main point of Ph 1 to get people from the populous and growing SE suburbs to downtown quickly?

I assume what they meant was $8B for 16th Avenue to Shepard with the available funding now only enough to go from Eau Claire to Ogden.

Could they not commit to phase 1 to Ogden and have the next segment further south waiting and ready to be started by the time Phase 1 is complete? Also, I thought it had to be built to Shepard for the maintenance facility.

The 2015 report mentioned that they looked at a few other sites in the SE, with a focus on CP lands in Ogden. It was probably rejected at the time because it was much more expensive and had less LRV storage capacity than Shepard.

 

[lemongrab]

I assume what they meant was $8B for 16th Avenue to Shepard with the available funding now only enough to go from Eau Claire to Ogden.


The 2015 report mentioned that they looked at a few other sites in the SE, with a focus on CP lands in Ogden. It was probably rejected at the time because it was much more expensive and had less LRV storage capacity than Shepard.
View attachment 581802

What's the deal with the huge variance in estimated capital cost? And what's the relevance of distance to Douglas Glen? Was that just considered the minimum necessary terminus or something?

 

[darwink]

What's the deal with the huge variance in estimated capital cost? And what's the relevance of distance to Douglas Glen? Was that just considered the minimum necessary terminus or something?

Just random factoids to make a rumour seem plausible.

Shall see!

 

[YYCguy]

One thing to note I don't see anyone talking about. The federal government just announced there will be an extra 3 Billion per year available from 2026-2036 that cities/provinces can apply for. This could easily help with future green line extensions if we start building phase 1 now.

When Trudope made the announcement in Toronto aka “The Only Canada” aka “The Centre of the Universe” it seemed he made a “nudge nudge wink wink” to Mayor Chow for this money to be reserved for her own city’s wishlist so I doubt we will see any of that money since we don’t live in “Trudope’s Canada”.

 

[kora]

The premier's comment to rethink the downtown tunnel stations is not helpful. We're building a Green Line for a region that will be approaching 3 million people before long. We need grade separated rail for a city that big. We're quickly falling into a rail deficit meanwhile Edmonton is quickly catching up and going through a building boom.

 

[outoftheice]

Opinion: Green Line could be UCP’s ticket to Calgary

When it comes to the Green Line, we need leaders to show leadership by putting aside their differences to do what’s best for this city.

calgaryherald.com