BMO Centre Expansion | ?m | ?s | CMLC

artvandelay

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This angle almost makes me glad they are tearing the Dome down, whoever designed those windows needed better glasses. And I think the building would have looked better if the currugated metal was rotad to be vertical. I wonder if anyone has ever climbed it...
I don't think it would work vertically with the curvature of the wall.

Anyways, I'll be surprised if it's torn down within the next decade.
 

Duck Lightning

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Unless the city and stampede can find reason in spending hundreds of millions in renovating the interior and the deteriorating roof of the structure after the land swap is done I cant see any future for the building but demolition.
 

darwink

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From this article you have:
  • Architectural, $33.8 million.
  • Building envelope, $1.7 million.
  • Structural, $3.1 million.
  • Mechanical, $3.5 million.
  • Refrigeration system, $1.7 million.
  • Electrical, $4.9 million.
  • Elevator, $90,000.
Of course, if you don't have a goal of using it 120 nights a year you can really scale things down. You have significant margin in the roof. Right now the roof holds speakers clusters, the catwalk and press boxes, lighting platforms, and the scoreboard. Even just removing the spec to support 36 tonnes for concert rigs, and 16 tonnes for the scoreboard should help a bunch. Mothball all the systems that support having sports teams, luxury boxes and 19,000 people in there. Without a bunch of those things do you need all that electrical capacity where it currently is? The high capacity hvac (mechanical)?

All dependent on having a use which will pay for itself at maybe 20 nights a year use. Heck maybe it even makes sense as a sound stage or something!

I want a thorough think on possible uses before we consign it to history. And a report on what keeping it as a barebones box would cost, or what a box with capacity for convention centre crowds would cost and if we'd still need to tear it down in 10 years anyways if we did either of those.

Maybe we'd find an interesting reuse case. Seems worth half a million bucks to find/vision it out.
 
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Surrealplaces

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JonnyCanuck

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"I want a thorough think on possible uses before we consign it to history. And a report on what keeping it as a barebones box would cost, or what a box with capacity for convention centre crowds would cost and if we'd still need to tear it down in 10 years anyways if we did either of those.

Maybe we'd find an interesting reuse case. Seems worth half a million bucks to find/vision it out."
Someone suggested the Saddledome become a permanent place for rodeo events, training etc. The Calgary Stampede is already a destination for everyone in the industry (mostly North American participants). The grounds have stables and other useful buildings (i.e Nutrien). In addition to other Canadian competitions, why not make it the permanent home for the World Rodeo Championships that are usually held in Las Vegas? That idea would take some serious lobbying but it could sell with the right presentation or ......would expanding the rodeo theme be 'too Calgary centric' for the industry?
 

darwink

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Not sure that would fit the cheap + economic development justification that would be needed for public investment. Considering the fight between Red Deer and Edmonton over the CFR, I doubt it would be advantageous.
 

doughflow

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Someone suggested the Saddledome become a permanent place for rodeo events, training etc. The Calgary Stampede is already a destination for everyone in the industry (mostly North American participants). The grounds have stables and other useful buildings (i.e Nutrien). In addition to other Canadian competitions, why not make it the permanent home for the World Rodeo Championships that are usually held in Las Vegas? That idea would take some serious lobbying but it could sell with the right presentation or ......would expanding the rodeo theme be 'too Calgary centric' for the industry?
The land is worth more to the Stampede razed than with the Dome once the new event centre is built.

Also, nothing is stopping the new event centre from hosting rodeo events.
 

artvandelay

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Unless the city and stampede can find reason in spending hundreds of millions in renovating the interior and the deteriorating roof of the structure after the land swap is done I cant see any future for the building but demolition.
The costs quoted by darwin are actually quite reasonable, especially if amortized over an extended useful building life. It think the Stampede is coming around to the idea of having a "B" venue (a la Pacific Coliseum) for scheduling flexibility, especially with the demolition of the Corral.
From this article you have:
  • Architectural, $33.8 million.
  • Building envelope, $1.7 million.
  • Structural, $3.1 million.
  • Mechanical, $3.5 million.
  • Refrigeration system, $1.7 million.
  • Electrical, $4.9 million.
  • Elevator, $90,000.
 

darwink

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While I don't think a permenant second venue is particularly useful, if there is a cost effective way to modify it for a new use that it covers its operating costs that would be good (and why convention or sound stage jumps to my mind). Can always tear it down later. Or if we happen to get Olympic fever again, modify it back to be useable for figure skating, short track and the like.
 

CBBarnett

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The land is worth more to the Stampede razed than with the Dome once the new event centre is built.

Also, nothing is stopping the new event centre from hosting rodeo events.
Most of my interest in re-using the Saddledome in any capacity stems from a strong desire to avoid yet another parking lot. If torn down, I don't have confidence that the site will be anything but a lot for another few decades - perhaps even as long as the lifecycle of the new arena and they'd just put another one back where the Saddledome is.

Such an enormous and unproductive stretch of land here in Stampede Park with no end in sight . My hope is that one day the area picks a lane: either become an urban neighbourhood with a strong event cultural component or becomes a 24/7/365 entertainment district properly, with indoor/outdoor components filling up the site all year round. A 50 year+ land bank of a hundred acres of windswept parking lots for 350 days a year is not a great outcome.

Whether the Saddledome is re-used or becomes a parking lot, perhaps 4 "anchor" festivals could be developed per year that last multiple days/weeks each for the Stampede Grounds. All can be pop-up or have a varying degree of permanence to help turn the place into a real destination rather than a pretend one.
  • Winter: Winterlude-style event
  • Spring: flea market / early summer outdoor festivals/concerts
  • Summer: Stampede / outdoor festivals/concerts
  • Fall: Farmers market
The lack of a farmers market really bothers me - you'd think that a 100-year old agricultural and livestock festival organization would naturally have an interest in agriculture and commerce. You could have a large farmers market from mid-July through October occupy a huge chunk of the site, would be a bigger and better used destination than the 10 day Stampede is. An event like this would actually drive economic activity in the area, daily traffic and build a cultural connection to the site for Calgarians - something that has never happened with any of the other events. A large farmers market would connect with all the mission and vision statements you can imagine about local, home-grown, independent farmers etc.

I guess the real problem is that the Stampede is interested in performative actions of farmers and ranchers rather than real ones. While it has always been this way, would be nice for them to evolve to do more than steward parking lots most of the time.
 

Calgcouver

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Most of my interest in re-using the Saddledome in any capacity stems from a strong desire to avoid yet another parking lot. If torn down, I don't have confidence that the site will be anything but a lot for another few decades - perhaps even as long as the lifecycle of the new arena and they'd just put another one back where the Saddledome is.

Such an enormous and unproductive stretch of land here in Stampede Park with no end in sight . My hope is that one day the area picks a lane: either become an urban neighbourhood with a strong event cultural component or becomes a 24/7/365 entertainment district properly, with indoor/outdoor components filling up the site all year round. A 50 year+ land bank of a hundred acres of windswept parking lots for 350 days a year is not a great outcome.

Whether the Saddledome is re-used or becomes a parking lot, perhaps 4 "anchor" festivals could be developed per year that last multiple days/weeks each for the Stampede Grounds. All can be pop-up or have a varying degree of permanence to help turn the place into a real destination rather than a pretend one.
  • Winter: Winterlude-style event
  • Spring: flea market / early summer outdoor festivals/concerts
  • Summer: Stampede / outdoor festivals/concerts
  • Fall: Farmers market
The lack of a farmers market really bothers me - you'd think that a 100-year old agricultural and livestock festival organization would naturally have an interest in agriculture and commerce. You could have a large farmers market from mid-July through October occupy a huge chunk of the site, would be a bigger and better used destination than the 10 day Stampede is. An event like this would actually drive economic activity in the area, daily traffic and build a cultural connection to the site for Calgarians - something that has never happened with any of the other events. A large farmers market would connect with all the mission and vision statements you can imagine about local, home-grown, independent farmers etc.

I guess the real problem is that the Stampede is interested in performative actions of farmers and ranchers rather than real ones. While it has always been this way, would be nice for them to evolve to do more than steward parking lots most of the time.
Good post, totally agree. All the Stampede board has achieved in decades with the vast amount of well-positioned land they have is to make the once important community of East Victoria Park a gravel parking lot wasteland and added a casino.
 

Mountain Man

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I don't think it would work vertically with the curvature of the wall.

Anyways, I'll be surprised if it's torn down within the next decade.
I did have that thought, would have to be in segments which would ruin the effect. The Dome will definitely come down, it needs major repairs and nobody will want to spend the money. CBC reported in July that the bill would be north of $48M link
 
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JonnyCanuck

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Good post, totally agree. All the Stampede board has achieved in decades with the vast amount of well-positioned land they have is to make the once important community of East Victoria Park a gravel parking lot wasteland and added a casino.
I agree that acres of land currently used for parking is a gigantic waste of prime property. To be fair to the Stampede board, they have added some new facilities in addition to the BMO expansion. The Youth Campus, Performing Arts Studio, Art Academy together with Enmax Park has dramatically changed the north eastern edge of Victoria Park. The Nutrien Event Centre was big improvement and occupies a little more asphalt than before as will the BMO expansion and a hotel. Until the new arena was announced, the plan was to fill in both sides of 4th St, south of 12 Ave with retail & hospitality venues. That plan was announced ten years ago and kept being put on the back burner (bad economy yada yada!) I suspect the indecision around the new arena contributed to the delay. Once the new arena starts construction, the rest of that parking space around will be developed. Bringing these plans to life has taken way too long for those of us who have been following this development closely. Over 200 structures were taken down and effectively wiped out a historic neighborhood. Yes, it was seedy and derelict but it is hard to argue that turning it into effectively one continuous park lot for almost 20 years,was an 'improvement'.
 

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