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AI Data Centre Industry Discussion Thread

O-tac said:
Rubber stamping ai data centres when the grid can't power them and there is a worsening water crisis is a terrible idea. But of course the UCP doesn't give a shit.
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Don't the proposed data centres have their own, separate power sources (nat gas)?
 
O-tac said:
Rubber stamping ai data centres when the grid can't power them and there is a worsening water crisis is a terrible idea. But of course the UCP doesn't give a shit.
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The transmission doesn't exist to allow data centers to pull huge amounts from the grid unless they coloate next to large generators.

Alberta has four competitive advantages:
1) deregulated energy market that allows consumers to contract directly with generators

2) cold weather that reduces cooling costs

3) large quantities of stranded natural gas resulting in the world's lowest cost resrouce

4) generally less NIMBYist culture

The Province will need to move quickly to capture data center footprint and that will likely require quashing the ability of local governments and interest groups to delay projects
 
FCC1982 said:
Seems encouraging if that amount of investment comes to the province
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The Province seems to be throwing as
roadblocks to data center development despite its stated intent otherwise. The two biggest are
-delay in announcing the market rules under REM (Restructured Energy Market). The REM initiative was announced in 2023 in response to high prices. Market conditions have changed and pricing is now so low that it isn't attracting new investment in generation, which is an unavoidable part of the cycle. Uncertainty over the new rules is avoidable and the Province seems to be dragging its feet over fear of not delivering lower prices. AESO should adopt rules similar to ERCOT (Texas) which are tried and true. That will mean shorter pricing intervals, location marginal prices (different prices at different locations within the grid) and a transmission pricing model that considers congestion and discourages building supply far away from demand
-restricting local politics from delaying permits
 
It still astounds me that anyone who isn’t a CEO techbro can think that this ai bubble and it’s enormously wasteful and environmentally damaging data centres are a good thing. Beyond the enormous quantity of energy they consume they waste tons of freshwater too. In case you guys hadn’t noticed water is becoming scarcer in Alberta. The UCP is already screwing farmers in the south to benefit coal mines. Now this.

And I don’t buy the economic benefits either. Besides lining the pockets of big tech companies these places only offer temporary construction jobs. I don’t believe we’ll even get provincial ‘royalties’ or whatever you wanna call it. This whole thing is a ponzi scheme pitched by Kevin O’Leary and Danielle Smith when they visited Mar a Lago and recently UAE and Saudi Arabia. Think about it, even if they sell natural gas for now, there’s nothing to say these companies won’t switch to nuclear or hydro from BC down the road.

And then of course there’s the existential threat of the technology itself, all of the social harms and the attack on every profession from doctors to writers to artists to educators. Who needs to drain a lake to generate an image of Donald Trump blowing Bill Clinton?

Figures Smith would push this shit while blocking renewable energy products. Fits her MO of hating workers, children, thinkers, educators, healthcare providers and especially the environment. The fact she pitched this to Dump while he was threatening to annex us as the 51st state while the rest of the country has been unified and fighting back makes it even worse.
 
I think the water usage is overstated: https://andymasley.substack.com/p/the-ai-water-issue-is-fake

These large datacenters don't create a ton of jobs, but it's not zero jobs (they're not unmanned). And they generate resource royalties for the province and country without a large infrastructure investment like export pipelines.

In the end, I do agree that these AI services use a ton of electricity for not a lot of benefit. Still, there are people and companies using these services, and at least this way the electricity isn't being generated using coal, or overtaxing the distribution network, and as I said, Alberta/Canada gets some compensation for it.
 
It reminds me of those shady bitcoin mining operations that have popped up around the province and been nothing but irritants to their neighbours. This is a scenario that goes beyond nymbyism though. It’s a larger assault on creativity, intelligence, workers, children and vulnerable populations. Who thinks a computer replacing a therapist, a painter, a writer, a doctor, a human being with accountability is a good idea? I hope the bubble bursts and the investors flee like they did ‘The Line’ in Saudi Arabia.
 
There seems to be a contradiction in reasoning here. Either AI will be so powerful it threatens most white collar professions, or these massive data centres will only ever just be used to turn out slop. It can't be both. So which is it?

If it is the latter, as long as you don't invest in an AI company, there really isn't a ton of impact to you, provided we can accommodate the draw on the electric grid with more production, and any impacts on electric rates will be temporary as the centers will be shuttered when the bubble bursts.

If it is the former, the cost of these professional services will theoretically go down, thus making access to them for far more people easier. Quality will go up and prices will go down. Sure, it will be disruptive, I myself am in an industry that is likely to be decimated by this. But... To state we should just not pursue it, for fear of job losses, is akin to going back a few hundred years to prevent the development of the internal combustion engine, because look what tractors did to the agriculture labour force of the time. Probably sucked for those workers at the time, but there is no denying that humanity's quality of life has dramatically improved as a result.
 
There will be some jobs related to the data centres themselves, though I don't think it'll be big numbers. As much as anything, the data centres will help boost the natural gas industry. A strong natural gas industry would be good for Alberta as oil declines.
 
MichaelS said:
There seems to be a contradiction in reasoning here. Either AI will be so powerful it threatens most white collar professions, or these massive data centres will only ever just be used to turn out slop. It can't be both. So which is it?

If it is the latter, as long as you don't invest in an AI company, there really isn't a ton of impact to you, provided we can accommodate the draw on the electric grid with more production, and any impacts on electric rates will be temporary as the centers will be shuttered when the bubble bursts.

If it is the former, the cost of these professional services will theoretically go down, thus making access to them for far more people easier. Quality will go up and prices will go down. Sure, it will be disruptive, I myself am in an industry that is likely to be decimated by this. But... To state we should just not pursue it, for fear of job losses, is akin to going back a few hundred years to prevent the development of the internal combustion engine, because look what tractors did to the agriculture labour force of the time. Probably sucked for those workers at the time, but there is no denying that humanity's quality of life has dramatically improved as a result.
Click to expand...

I think this graph sums it up pretty well, with an all-time great chart title

IMG_5086.png
 
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