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17th Ave Car Free Discussion

Close 17th ave to cars during the summer months?

  • Close 17th ave during the summer months

    Votes: 18 90.0%
  • Don't close 17th ave during the summer months

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Close only on weekends

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20
Filled it out as well! Thanks for the link!
 
Would 4st be a better candidate for a car free zone? I feel like there is less room on 4th for patios, so this would probably add more benefit to that street. Also, there is already a precedent for the closure with Lilac Fest.
 
Would 4st be a better candidate for a car free zone? I feel like there is less room on 4th for patios, so this would probably add more benefit to that street. Also, there is already a precedent for the closure with Lilac Fest.
I can see this argument, but comes across as the same energy we hear from anti-growth communities - "why don't we just put all the density on MacLeod (instead of where people actually want to live in the nice communities adjacent)".

We should open streets to people and expand patios where they are already popular and have endless demonstrated demand for more of that space, particularly on summer weekends evenings.
 
The answer in the Beltline is super blocks, isn't it? Identify the car-centric roads and make the others better for walking/cycling.
I don't really think so.

First, for the unaware: a superblock is a semi-pedestrianization policy from Barcelona. The figure below shows roughly the scheme:
1717650258410.png

This is the best diagram I can find, but essentially the outer roads around a 3x3 grid of blocks remain more or less untouched, while the internal ones are only used for access, so the U shaped "pedestrians and vehicles" space functions as access to the buildings, but you can only make right turns on them, so you come in off the main road, and then drive around the block (accessing whatever building you need) and back out to the main road.

This then frees up more space to be used for parklets and the like, and permits pedestrians and cyclists to take direct short routes, while forcing cars onto the main roads. For instance: Before After

The two reasons I don't know if it's the right solution for the Beltline are:
1). Barcelona intersections are huge, chamfered things, so closing them gets you real space. They're on the order of 20,000 sq ft, where a standard minor intersection in the Beltline is more like 4000 sq ft. So you don't get nearly as much space to do cool things with. (The street widths are similar, although Barcelona has more pedestrian space by having no setbacks for the buildings, but wider sidewalks instead.)
2). If you did it here, presumably the streets that would not get closed to cars would be every third street - Macleod (2nd St E), 1st W, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th. But those are the streets that we actually need the pedestrian space on! For one, they are the ones with commercial activity, and for another, they are the ones that provide access to the downtown. (Since they are the ones with downtown connectivity, it would be hard to close them to cars.)

In a peverse way, I almost wonder if a more workable variant would be to implement a superblock type fixture on the side streets, but use it for angle parking, then taking parking space and lanes on the through streets for more pedestrian and cyclist space.
 
I appreciate the breakdown, fully understanding you couldn't do a one for one copy of what they do in Barcelona. In my mind you pick the higher priority between walking, cycling, and driving and lean into it: Macleod (North and South); Driving first and then walking second, 1St W (South of 12Ave); Walking first and then driving second, 1St W (North of 12Ave) Driving first and then walking. I'm not thinking big sweeping changes but small tweaks, like they already do seasonally but just more and more permanent.
 

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