Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

[CalgaryTiger]

It's not quite the same thing because you have utilities crossing everywhere and connecting to each building along the roadway. A development generally has a contained empty lot you can drive shoring around the entire perimeter..

When they're digging up Stephen Ave this would be a pretty good time to map everything out. Not full-on prep for a subway but at least some note taking. Won't happen though as I'm sure they're not digging up the whole of the road.

 

[darwink]

I think if the Stephen Avenue subway is ever built, the capacity freed up for the Blue Line will mean it's would struggle to ever make the business case to build another subway there in all but the longest-term future scenario.

I expect the main benefit was if LRT was off of 7th, perhaps many if not all buses could be relocated to 7th. Plus it was going to have a really cool cross platform transfer station under Olympic Plaza.

 

[CBBarnett]

I expect the main benefit was if LRT was off of 7th, perhaps many if not all buses could be relocated to 7th. Plus it was going to have a really cool cross platform transfer station under Olympic Plaza.

Yes - buses.

I actually think the lowest hanging fruit and one of the better value projects for Calgary Transit isn't the LRT downtown, but it's figuring out how to get those hundreds of buses moving on 6th, 5th and 4th Avenues downtown.

Enormous delays and inconsistency have been allowed to fester for decades undermining much of the citywide bus network's usability thanks to how important downtown is to many routes, but none have priority so are victims to heavy congestion every day.

A redesign of major downtown avenues with proper bus priority is probably the best value short-term transit project downtown.

 

[darwink]

Image from Page 30 City Hall Area Redevelopment Plan Retrieved from Archive.org

"Developments in the City Hall area must provide for the protection of rights-of-way for future below grade L.R.T. facilities as shown in the accompanying L.R.T. Plan. The purpose of protecting these rights-of-way is to protect the option of developing a Central Station for the City’s L.R.T. system in the City Hall area at some point in the future. Entrances to the Central Station, processing areas and transfer connections will be developed on the east side of MacLeod Trail as part of the Municipal Building and Civic Plaza development, and west of MacLeod Trail as part of the development of the block west of City Hall."

The report drew from:

L.R.T. Requirements in the Vicinity of the Proposed Municipal Building. DelCan - Deleuw Cather Canada Ltd. Consulting Engineers and Planners - Calgary October 1981.

This report examines future L.R.T. alignment options in the City Hall area including L.R.T. station options. 15 different alignment options are identified and analyzed. A preferred alignment which satisfies all evaluation criteria is identified and explained. The structural and other non-operating L.R.T. requirements on the site of the new Municipal Building are documented.

Approximation:

 

[Surrealplaces]

Yes - buses.

I actually think the lowest hanging fruit and one of the better value projects for Calgary Transit isn't the LRT downtown, but it's figuring out how to get those hundreds of buses moving on 6th, 5th and 4th Avenues downtown.

Enormous delays and inconsistency have been allowed to fester for decades undermining much of the citywide bus network's usability thanks to how important downtown is to many routes, but none have priority so are victims to heavy congestion every day.

A redesign of major downtown avenues with proper bus priority is probably the best value short-term transit project downtown.

I know there would be blowback from commuters, but if the city could ever take 2 lanes from the 5 lanes on 5th and 6th and dedicate them to bus lanes (one park lane and one bypass lane) I imagine the busses would move nicely through downtown.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

blowback from commuters

You can sell this to them though. I've seen many times on 5th where busses needing to go north cut across traffic and slow down everyone. Bus lanes with priority signals and you've got yourself a rapid bus system downtown. Also, the lanes could only be active during rush hours, opposite to the parking. Would be easy for people to understand and adapt to.

 

[trtcttc]

I know there would be blowback from commuters, but if the city could ever take 2 lanes from the 5 lanes on 5th and 6th and dedicate them to bus lanes (one park lane and one bypass lane) I imagine the busses would move nicely through downtown.

And even if they don't take that bus, if the person next to them who was driving is now on that bus, there's less traffic for them. It's always the sell for transit priority projects but two lanes is a pretty small price.

 

[InfrastructureEnthusiast]

Image from Page 30 City Hall Area Redevelopment Plan Retrieved from Archive.org

"Developments in the City Hall area must provide for the protection of rights-of-way for future below grade L.R.T. facilities as shown in the accompanying L.R.T. Plan. The purpose of protecting these rights-of-way is to protect the option of developing a Central Station for the City’s L.R.T. system in the City Hall area at some point in the future. Entrances to the Central Station, processing areas and transfer connections will be developed on the east side of MacLeod Trail as part of the Municipal Building and Civic Plaza development, and west of MacLeod Trail as part of the development of the block west of City Hall."
View attachment 666337


The report drew from:


Approximation:
View attachment 666339

I still think it would be wise for the city to find a way to pay for the 8av subway to be done in conjunction with the green line work downtown. Get the biggest construction disruptions over and done with, and it throws a tunnel bone to those disappointed with the elevated GL plan.

It may even cost less to add the red line subway than tunneling GL DT would have added up to..

 

[DougB]

Image from Page 30 City Hall Area Redevelopment Plan Retrieved from Archive.org

"Developments in the City Hall area must provide for the protection of rights-of-way for future below grade L.R.T. facilities as shown in the accompanying L.R.T. Plan. The purpose of protecting these rights-of-way is to protect the option of developing a Central Station for the City’s L.R.T. system in the City Hall area at some point in the future. Entrances to the Central Station, processing areas and transfer connections will be developed on the east side of MacLeod Trail as part of the Municipal Building and Civic Plaza development, and west of MacLeod Trail as part of the development of the block west of City Hall."
View attachment 666337


The report drew from:


Approximation:
View attachment 666339

The Arts Common Expansion probably doesn't conform

 

[CBBarnett]

The Arts Common Expansion probably doesn't conform

Is below what they were imagining? I am struggling to understand exactly what they were thinking back in the 1980s, I don't think the Blue Line existed at the time they planned this?

I would imagine the ship sailed on the Blue line component with the Central Library building over the Red Line to 7th Avenue connection?

 

[darwink]

Is below what they were imagining? I am struggling to understand exactly what they were thinking back in the 1980s, I don't think the Blue Line existed at the time they planned this?

I would imagine the ship sailed on the Blue line component with the Central Library building over the Red Line to 7th Avenue connection?

View attachment 666352

Exactly in the ultimate stage. so they could build a tunnel on 7th without interupting service, and run it without an OMC or delivery site on the Blue Line, and continue to run the rush hour NW to NE trains.

 

[Calgcouver]

Underground on 8th Ave would be expensive AF, water table is high tons of possible cost over runs. Just re route the blue line at-grade to connect with itself on 6 Ave and leave 7 Ave for the Red Line. Leave 8 Ave as currently designed. Just an opinion

 

[CBBarnett]

Underground on 8th Ave would be expensive AF, water table is high tons of possible cost over runs. Just re route the blue line at-grade to connect with itself on 6 Ave and leave 7 Ave for the Red Line. Leave 8 Ave as currently designed. Just an opinion

Actually, I agree with this is as the ultimate project - save billions by avoiding tunnels and makes transit more reliable: just create another 7th Avenue. It would improve the capacity of 6th Ave by 3 to 5 times easily.