Calgcouver
Active Member
Like we don’t have enough surface area of asphalt. Idiots
|
|
|
Urban Development and Proposals Discussion
- Thread starter Surrealplaces
- Start date
MichaelS
Senior Member
Will there be at least a decorative pattern in the paving, for the 10 months a year a tent isn't on it?
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
What is with the city selling rights to everything with seemingly no benefit. They sold sponsorship for the free-fare zone, did that really change anything? Now they've sold this to Cowboys because Penny Lane didn't want to pay to rent a parking lot. Loser energy from the city.
haltcatchfire
Senior Member
Literally across the street is one of the largest parking lots in the area with the lowest usage. Staples.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
The whole Cowboys Park thing was always a little weird - as someone who loves and follows all this development and urban planning stuff as closely as I can, I was surprised to only have heard it at that first announcement that said it was a done deal, with no real details on what was envisioned. Same goes with the Olympic Plaza redevelopment - it is unusual that the whole place is torn up without even a whisper about what the replacement will look like.
There could be totally valid reasons for any of this of course, but a total lack of details makes those reasons unknowable to any member of the public.
This contrasts dramatically from most other city initiatives where the criticism is opposite - over-engaging on stuff that public opinion really doesn't matter a whole lot or have anything constructive to really add, such as future LRT extensions 30 years from now where we already have picked the right-of-way (feedback is unsurprisingly unhelpful - sure it's a good idea, but just build it tomorrow not 30 years from now).
The goldilocks zone is somewhere in the middle - a bit of engagement on things that are actually implementable and tangible in the near and mid-term. Seems like a miss here - particularly a PR risk because of how shady Cowboys reputation is.
On a sidenote, allowing Cowboys moving their actual mega-scale party tents to West Downtown is remarkably ignorant to local residents of which there are thousands - it's the densest neighbourhood in the city. I am very pro loosening up planning regulations and allowing more festivals and noise everywhere... but come on, there's a difference between a few summer daytime festivals that wrap up at 11pm and a 24/7 operation of tens of thousands of drunk tourists for 10 days (plus a month of construction on either side for setup and teardown).
To do this move (without any real engagement of the community) is wild - this festival has 1,000 times the impact that a new apartment tower would have, and that's required to have engagement about it!
There could be totally valid reasons for any of this of course, but a total lack of details makes those reasons unknowable to any member of the public.
This contrasts dramatically from most other city initiatives where the criticism is opposite - over-engaging on stuff that public opinion really doesn't matter a whole lot or have anything constructive to really add, such as future LRT extensions 30 years from now where we already have picked the right-of-way (feedback is unsurprisingly unhelpful - sure it's a good idea, but just build it tomorrow not 30 years from now).
The goldilocks zone is somewhere in the middle - a bit of engagement on things that are actually implementable and tangible in the near and mid-term. Seems like a miss here - particularly a PR risk because of how shady Cowboys reputation is.
On a sidenote, allowing Cowboys moving their actual mega-scale party tents to West Downtown is remarkably ignorant to local residents of which there are thousands - it's the densest neighbourhood in the city. I am very pro loosening up planning regulations and allowing more festivals and noise everywhere... but come on, there's a difference between a few summer daytime festivals that wrap up at 11pm and a 24/7 operation of tens of thousands of drunk tourists for 10 days (plus a month of construction on either side for setup and teardown).
To do this move (without any real engagement of the community) is wild - this festival has 1,000 times the impact that a new apartment tower would have, and that's required to have engagement about it!
darwink
Senior Member
It would be replacing other events at the park during Stampede, no?
1875
Senior Member
the power of the brown envelope
lemongrab
Active Member
Recreation stuff definitely seems like it should be the highest yield for engagement
I can see some merits to this site in the sense that its pretty well contained by hostile barriers, but there will be plenty of social disorder that spills out. It would be interesting to know the hard costs associated with the Cowboys tent (violence & vandalism)...it feels a bit funny for the city to enable it to an even greater degree.
It's also a bit odd when the city is promoting the events district idea so hard, though maybe for those 10 days in July it is over saturated. But there is no shortage of full blocks of pavement elsewhere in DT...if Cowboys can't find a sustainable free-market solution, why are We bailing them out?
Anyone know what events normally happen there? It looks like they used to do the Oxford Stomp there (just a single night I think), but it's moved to PIP the last few years. Otherwise I can just imagine maybe some pancake breakfasts?
CBBarnett
Senior Member
Probably - but my point wasn't super clear. I'm saying there's a missing nuance on the scale and impact of the type of public events here. Having been a bunch over the years, Cowboys main stage tent is about as high on the impact continuum a temporary event could have and is much higher than anything I have ever seen at Millenium Park.
Impact of events to local residents can range from negligible to extra-ordinarily inconvenient. A casual daytime outdoor event with few thousand attendees milling about until 10pm is at the low end of that impact scale - this is wildly different that Cowboys main stage tent being teleported into your community that doesn't shut down the party until 3am, plus the 24/7 operation to get it setup again for the next night. For those that haven't been, the rumours are true - the typical overcrowding, chaos and level of intoxication for Cowboys is a real thing. This exacerbates the impact.
Also have to remember Calgary's "stampede special" noise bylaws - noise is allowed until much later during the 2 weeks of Stampede. From my lived experience in and around Stampede, over the decades, I am skeptical that even those "stampede special" weaker noise rules will ever be enforced in a meaningful way regardless of what they are.
People turn a blind eye to rules around the typical party streets during Stampede - 17th, near the Stampede Grounds etc. - I am very curious how that same blind eye would impact the seniors centre, 2 day cares, and 2,000+ apartments within 300m of the new main stage. That area has never seen this kind of thing. Here's a 2019 article about the drama when they wanted to move the tent 1 block closer into the Beltline, an areas that has far more experience with this kind of thing https://calgaryherald.com/news/loca...posed-re-location-of-the-cowboys-concert-tent
Whether my concerns are real or overblown is a matter of opinion - but it's shocking that this type of move didn't meet the minimum threshold for engagement to debate any of this, where a boring infill development does.
All this is to say - Downtown West doesn't know what they signed up for. Because they didn't sign up for it. That's wild to me for such big change.
CallmeCatbread
New Member
It's actually blowing my mind that the city is pulling this just totally out of the blue. Absolutely mind boggling and a slap in thr face to everyone, especially those who live in the area. Even worse when they then go on to hold endless useless consultation meetings for housing and reject it in the name of "listening to thr community". What a joke. Is there anything we can do about this? I don't live in the ward but I wanna make my voice heard that this is despicable.
MichaelS
Senior Member
White: Is downtown Calgary thriving or just surviving?
The arts and post-secondary education are making a distinct mark on downtown revitalization, even while humanity's troubles remain unsolved.
calgaryherald.com
From the article:
But the big news is that the University of Calgary has signed a deal to occupy the bottom seven floors of the empty Nexen office tower, which should also trigger the development of housing above. This, combined with the university’s 8th and 8th building, as well as several other colleges and ESL schools will transform Downtown West into a postsecondary campus.
Nimbus
Active Member
^^^ Told ya so!
skyrisecities.com
General Construction Updates
Surely the boards on 7th show they're looking to move on it sometime soon? Interest rates are going down though so no incentive to do it quick > do it right. Maybe we'll see them come back with a 300+, given it sounds they were ready for a 282. Hopefully with a better podium, and better usage of...
As someone who lives a couple blocks from the Back Alley stampede tent, I can say that it definitely does suck. But at least it's only for 2 weeks every year.
Nice call Nimbus!^^^ Told ya so!
General Construction Updates
Surely the boards on 7th show they're looking to move on it sometime soon? Interest rates are going down though so no incentive to do it quick > do it right. Maybe we'll see them come back with a 300+, given it sounds they were ready for a 282. Hopefully with a better podium, and better usage of...
CT (Chinese_T)
Active Member
White: Is downtown Calgary thriving or just surviving?
The arts and post-secondary education are making a distinct mark on downtown revitalization, even while humanity's troubles remain unsolved.
From the article:
But the big news is that the University of Calgary has signed a deal to occupy the bottom seven floors of the empty Nexen office tower, which should also trigger the development of housing above. This, combined with the university’s 8th and 8th building, as well as several other colleges and ESL schools will transform Downtown West into a postsecondary campus.
He also updated this article: https://everydaytourist.ca/city-planning-101/nexen-tower-a-bold-opportunity-amp-challenge
"Update: This blog was published Nov 21, 2024 and in mid January I learned the University of Calgary signed a lease for the bottom 7 floors of the Nexen buidling. The University will be moving their School of Architecture, Planning and Landscape from the main campus and their CBDLab already located downtown to the Nexen building. Jan 15, 2025."
Some interesting concept images too.