Arts Commons | 18m | 4s | City of Calgary | KPMB

This is probably a bit dumb, but if we weren't bogged down with the green line, would it have made sense to excavate and rough in the 8 Ave subway station as part of this project? It looks like this building goes about 6.5M deep (albeit a bit shallower for some of the footprint), so a pretty substantial excavation.

I'm sure the 'savings' of piggybacking onto another project aren't that significant, especially when you factor TVM, but what cost do you put on future construction disruption? Or will we not want to disrupt this area so much in the future and opt for a more expensive construction approach? Wouldn't we also want to design everything to consider optimal station access points and efficient walking paths for future 7th-8th ave transfers?

I know it doesn't make sense in today's context, but I'm curious what we'd do in an alternate reailty
 
I fully expect it to suck as bad as the newer Devonian Gardens. I think the renovated Eau Claire plaza will, too. The new = good crowd always wins in Calgary, even though the results don't always work out.
 
Anything with a shred of history in this city gets demolished because we're too cheap to maintain that history. Then people complain there's no history in this city.
 
The process of this has been a bit backwards. The CMLC timeline says we should see a design early this year. So any time between now and the end of May.
1736445950652.png


With the long construction timeline maybe they are doing something for the 8th Ave LRT? Probably not though.

Website does say: The plaza’s Olympic legacy will be thematically represented in the new plaza. Whatever that means.
 
On Stephen Ave... From the city's website.

Stephen Avenue Field Investigations – January 2025

The City of Calgary will conduct field investigations along Stephen Avenue from January 6 to 23, 2025, between 1 Street S.E. and 3 Street S.W. This work is critical for finalizing the design and planning future construction activities with minimal disruption to businesses and the public.

What’s Happening

  • Utility Assessments: Graham Construction will locate and evaluate underground utilities.
  • Soil Sampling: Stantec will collect soil samples between 1 Street S.E. and 3 Street S.W. to support the project’s design.
Minimizing Impacts

  • Active travel lane closures will occur only during off-peak hours (9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.).
  • Pedestrian and cyclist access along 8 Avenue will remain open.
  • Cyclists are required to dismount and walk through temporary detour zones.
  • Business access will be maintained throughout.
Key Dates

  • 100 SE Block: January 6–16
  • 100 SW Block: January 17–23
  • 200 & 300 SW Blocks: January 6–10
Note: All work is weather-dependent, and efforts will be made to minimize disruptions.
 
I fully expect it to suck as bad as the newer Devonian Gardens. I think the renovated Eau Claire plaza will, too. The new = good crowd always wins in Calgary, even though the results don't always work out.
I agree with this and Devonian, but despite the ridiculous timeline of Eau Claire Plaza, I think it will be immeasurably better than the largely useless, windswept space it was before.
 
I agree with this and Devonian, but despite the ridiculous timeline of Eau Claire Plaza, I think it will be immeasurably better than the largely useless, windswept space it was before.
The Green Line thing could really harm any positive aspect of the work put into Eau Claire. The mall, townhomes and surrounding roads are all kind of in limbo for a few years at least while they either do the other 95% of the elevated line or walkaway and leave the landowner to sit on the mall and wait.
 
I agree with this and Devonian, but despite the ridiculous timeline of Eau Claire Plaza, I think it will be immeasurably better than the largely useless, windswept space it was before.
Mainly I'm lamenting the loss of the splash park for another crappy St. Patrick's Island type playground that is loved by architects but boring to kids.
 
Agree with badcoffee. Sometimes I feel designers don’t truly take into consideration those younger than 15 years old. Nothing in the revamped Eau Clare plaza seems designed for children. “Hey mom, can we go to Eau Clare so we can play on the giant concrete rectangle with telephone poles sticking out!” That splash park was always busy with families and kids.
This city is also allergic to water. I’ve mentioned it before and I know we live in a winter city, but my God would it kill the city to have a couple grand water fountains or a few more outdoor wading pools? I’ll bet money they don’t reinstall a water feature in the new Olympic Plaza.
 
Agree with badcoffee. Sometimes I feel designers don’t truly take into consideration those younger than 15 years old. Nothing in the revamped Eau Clare plaza seems designed for children. “Hey mom, can we go to Eau Clare so we can play on the giant concrete rectangle with telephone poles sticking out!” That splash park was always busy with families and kids.
This city is also allergic to water. I’ve mentioned it before and I know we live in a winter city, but my God would it kill the city to have a couple grand water fountains or a few more outdoor wading pools? I’ll bet money they don’t reinstall a water feature in the new Olympic Plaza.
The water thing is weird, weather is an excuse - my view it's because we are very cheap and overly afraid of lawsuits. Partially it's also our culture - a relatively low-water and young city that missed the "peak fountain" era of the early 20th century.

RE: children's stuff in the inner city, it always seems to be a bias within the recreation and parks systems - firstly that downtown doesn't have children, and assuming children have access to cars so they can go to "nearby" splash parks and facilities. This is a broader bias that impacts many things, but related to fountains and parks it's really obvious when you see what's built, where. Because it's not actually true that we don't build splash parks or great children amenities, we have loads including many seasonal ones - we just intentionally don't build them in central locations.

For example, this spray park in South Glenmore Park is massive and freshly invested in - multiple playgrounds, many water features, change rooms, bathrooms, sun/rain protection etc. It's a wildly popular destination for families with young kids. Can easily see hundreds of people in a popular summer day. You could easily fit this design on Prince's Island or anywhere central:

1736526428460.png


Instead of the fun, family friendly stuff we get things like Century Gardens which is nice and very popular, but no where near as fun or large capacity:

1736526484303.png


Excuses to why the first example can't exist downtown are predictable - there's not enough children to justify things like spray parks in downtown, inner city park space is in short supply and can't dedicate the space, it's too expensive to maintain parks like the splash parks in downtown due to "downtown issues", downtown already has so much stuff and we need to balance it out, and my favourite - it'll be too crowded. I also wouldn't be surprised if many splash park ideas die on the vine due to "where will parents park, as obviously most children will arrive by cars".

Some of these arguments may be reasonable for a given location or idea, but mostly I find it a lazy status-quo cultural bias that is applied before any idea can get off the ground to create a more child-friendly downtown. We absolutely could fit a spray park in an existing park. Parking "need" is a made up thing. There's thousands of children living downtown right now (let alone more in the future) plus thousands more children that visit inner city parks daily all year round from elsewhere in the city. There's countless examples from many other major cities that have "downtown issues" and still manage to pull off awesome children's infrastructure in their city centres.

Meanwhile the suburban splash parks don't face the same frictions. North Glenmore Park didn't have to "prove" there's enough children nearby (there isn't) to justify a spray park is a good idea, it's just assumed that it's the type of place that should have children stuff. That's the type of bias that holds back design sometimes in the inner city public spaces.
 
Last edited:

Back
Top