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General Construction Updates

CBBarnett said:
I think the word “freely” is doing a lot of work here. How free? Crowchild is free-flow about a block away. All of Calgary's main streets feature cars, many/most nice retail and shopping streets in Toronto and Montreal also allow cars. What is less common in Montreal and Toronto is how often the car commuter is prioritized over local needs in these shopping districts. Calgary does this all the time.


This is too binary - it's not all or nothing. What it should be is a legitimate sliding scale, where in shopping districts and main streets pedestrians and local businesses are actually prioritized over commuter traffic.

This doesn't mean "ban cars", it means if the trade-off is between a wide curve to allow for cars to turn at speed and a narrow curve to slow cars and give more space for pedestrians, do that. It means allowing crossing pedestrians to go first and avoid advanced-left turns that delay pedestrians. It means lanes can be narrowed to give more room to sidewalks, even if this means cars will have to be a bit slower. That kind of thing.

Here's a few 34th Ave equivalents in Toronto. The all are just off of a "main street" in the way Calgary thinks about them, but they themselves don't connect much to the larger grid, just like 34th. Notice the cars are allowed, but the need to commute is really not the focus - narrow, one-way, low curbs, stop signs. Nothing is designed for speed here and that's okay, it's not important. That's what the Crowchild Trail's of the world are for.

Baldwin Street (near U or T):

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Yorkville
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Maybe the way I phrased it was confusing but I do like Calgary’s system, where there are major arterial roads connecting the entire city. What I mean was we shouldn’t get rid of streets like 14 because that will just drive traffic to other roads. We should have streets with minimal cars (19th NW), but that means providing a way for cars to get through on a different street (14 NW).

If you live in Toronto, you will see the traffic backups on Bloor (especially West of Spadina) where one left turn vehicle causes a giant backup. There’s tons of traffic at all times across major streets (Bathurst, Dufferin, University, St Clair, etc) because there are no arterial roads. They’ve made previous arterial roads single lane with bike/streetcar. Which again those modes are good, but without funneling cars somewhere else it degrades the urban environment with traffic. Just zoom in on Toronto on Google Maps anytime after 3pm, urban environments are not pleasant when there’s honking and cars idling on half the roads downtown.
 
ByeByeBaby said:
Chill out, tiger. There are five (5) whole blocks of street in Calgary that do not have cars on them for less than half of the day, and even they were designed with substantial consideration for cars.

We have never once designed a street by figuring out how wide the cycling/wheeling facilities should be, how wide the sidewalks should be, how much space we want for trees and benches and furniture, and then seeing whether or not we can cram in a car lane or two and/or parking in the remaining space, and if not, oh well.
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8 Street SW maybe turning the tide 🥺

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badc0ffee said:
10 St, a "car sewer". The term has officially lost all meaning.

It has sidewalks, curbs, parking at the curb, no/very few parking lots fronting the street, bus service, parks, lighting, benches, garbage cans, crosswalks, and (controversial opinion), it's not only possible to walk safely, but it's actually pleasant!
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Looks pretty car sewery to me. But it was nice of the City to give pedestrians a good 2 - maybe 2.5 - feet to squeeze between the utility polls and buildings. Kensington would be much, much more pleasant if 10th street wasn't a major car route in and out of downtown.
 
Silence&Motion said:
Looks pretty car sewery to me. But it was nice of the City to give pedestrians a good 2 - maybe 2.5 - feet to squeeze between the utility polls and buildings. Kensington would be much, much more pleasant if 10th street wasn't a major car route in and out of downtown.
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And we should keep in mind - 10th Street is "good" by Calgary standards when it comes to pedestrian accommodation and priority in walkable, main street areas. Relatively "good" means pedestrians are accommodated with narrow sidewalks (in good condition at least!) and haven't been prioritized at all to get more road space here.

The average is so low here we often struggle to recognize actual good main streets when we see them. Our collective response is usually something with the logic "it must be a walkable main street, because at least it's not as bad as 14th Street".
 
Is there any desire from the City to improve the walkability of 10th Str?
Feels like any substantive improvements would necessitate removal of driving lanes.
 
It's part of what makes the proposed plaza for the development of the Osteria site at the corner or 10th and Kensington road laughable. Yes, it will be awesome to have more space there to navigate the corner. But as a place to sit and chill? Noisy, smelly, unpleasant as all get out. I'll pass.
 
John Wick said:
Is there any desire from the City to improve the walkability of 10th Str?
Feels like any substantive improvements would necessitate removal of driving lanes.
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The City did kind of a substantial refresh of 10th Street back in 2016, but I am having a hard time finding any information on that project. I recall it was quite disruptive to local businesses (or, at least used as an excuse / pile on the economic hardships of the time). I am not sure what was the driver of design. But, with the magic of the Streetview Time Machine, you can see the before state in September 2015, the construction during May 2016, and the finished product starting in May 2017. Unfortunately, it looks like the outcome is pretty similar to the 17th Avenue SW refurbishment, with not a lot of bold decisions to really enhance the pedestrian realm at the expense of vehicle movements.

Would it be worth spending another $50-60 million refurbishing this road, given that what was built is only 8 years old at this point?
 
John Wick said:
Is there any desire from the City to improve the walkability of 10th Str?
Feels like any substantive improvements would necessitate removal of driving lanes.
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It seems like there's no chance 10th street will ever improve given its position within the larger road network. That's why it's nice that we're starting to see "main streets" develop on smaller, non-commuter roads like 19st in Hillhurst and 33/34 ave in Marda Loop where the need to push through high volumes of cars does not overrule any attempts to create pleasant places to walk and linger.
 
adamyyc said:
Shots of the partially completed mural, the patio space, and Elizabeth Square under development.

I really hope LDG has more in the pipeline (selfishly I hope it’s in Marda Loop) because they do really thoughtful work. Everything from scale, colour, materials, lighting, etc. seems well thought out.

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Completely agree. LDG has brought significant vibrancy to 34th Ave. The small businesses are thriving and bringing real vibrancy to the area, you can really notice it during warm summer evenings. Really curious to see what goes in, they have mentioned a restaurant.

Give me 100 of these developments over Courtyard 33, which was a great concept but just so poorly executed. Some of the retail units have yet to be leased years later, the courtyard is empty every time I have been there, and places like the Mash are dead every night (which selfishly I love, because my 4 year old loves it and we can always guarantee any table we want in the place). Diner Deluxe is thriving and that's about it.
 
Silence&Motion said:
It seems like there's no chance 10th street will ever improve given its position within the larger road network. That's why it's nice that we're starting to see "main streets" develop on smaller, non-commuter roads like 19st in Hillhurst and 33/34 ave in Marda Loop where the need to push through high volumes of cars does not overrule any attempts to create pleasant places to walk and linger.
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Short term probably not, but with Memorial/14th/Crowchild nearby, there's definitely room to divert traffic if we wanted to make 10th more pedestrian friendly. There's basically a test case right now with the closure of 10th north of 5th Ave. One challenge that will face 19th and 33/34 ave is the lack of transit. As these streets get more shops/restaurants, they also get more cars. Kensington has the advantage of transit access and significant residential population to support businesses without catering to driving/parking.
 
shermanator said:
Completely agree. LDG has brought significant vibrancy to 34th Ave. The small businesses are thriving and bringing real vibrancy to the area, you can really notice it during warm summer evenings. Really curious to see what goes in, they have mentioned a restaurant.

Give me 100 of these developments over Courtyard 33, which was a great concept but just so poorly executed. Some of the retail units have yet to be leased years later, the courtyard is empty every time I have been there, and places like the Mash are dead every night (which selfishly I love, because my 4 year old loves it and we can always guarantee any table we want in the place). Diner Deluxe is thriving and that's about it.
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A worthy experiment of pushing the lease-able space to maximum and reducing common costs given the constraints.
 
Oh that would be great. That office frontage on First is heinous, and another parking lot biting the dust is always good. Count on whatever they propose having retail frontage on First Street 🥳
 
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