I think because it can only serve Sunalta in one direction (eastbound, going toward downtown), unless it's rerouted to a much slower route along 10 Ave.
Marc and Mada | 62m | 19s | Truman | NORR
- Thread starter MichaelS
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trtcttc
Senior Member
Say they're making a trip from Marda Loop to the SW? Would save a bunch of time not having to go into downtown. Even if you are going NE, switching to a train is probably much faster. I get stop spacing shouldn't be too close, but when there's connection points at LRT, should probably stop.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Riding the MY, most people get off the bus at 8th Ave, which is only about 5 minutes further than Sunalta. I'm not sure a stop at the Sunalta C-Train Station would be used by many. Especially considering the hike required to get to the elevated station.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
If I was to improve the Max Yellow in context of supporting more development in Marda Loop and creating a more functional system. I don't think I'd add a Sunalta stop until Bow Trail was redesigned more generally, but I'd do a few things below. Probably would save about 10 minutes per trip with these improvements. If you rode the line end-to-end this would be about ~20% faster.
Expensive parts would be mostly political - accepting Marda Loop station is in the wrong spot and redoing it + allocating better transit priority downtown. Project would come in at about 1% of a new Blue Line spur line (although that would be incredible and in long-term even better).
Step 1: Move the Marda Loop stop to under the underpass and create ramps/stairs. Keep Max Yellow on Crowchild:
- reduces walking distance to the "core" of Marda Loop's density
- Reduces number of road crossings needed for pedestrians
- Removes signals for bus that are near 100% likely to stop a bus - saves about 2 minutes per direction/each route and way more reliability. Keeps the bus out of Marda Loop traffic congestion where it currently enters for no benefit.
- Yes it sucks to stand under an underpass - but #1 through 3 are huge benefits to make the trade off worth it.
- Add stops at 11th Street SW in both directions , allow for access to major pedestrian corridor and Kirby LRT station.
- Delete the terrible 9th Ave/9th Street stop that's useless, move to 8th Street overpass to allow for easy pedestrian connections to 8th Street.
- Add stop between 5th and 4th Street in both directions (on 9th and 6th Ave), to allow for easy pedestrian connections to those major N-S corridors and the LRT stations nearby.
- Delete bizarre routing to circle onto 5th Avenue.
- Add dedicated bus lanes on 6th and 9th so bus doesn't get held up in traffic (this benefits 30,000+ daily bus users on these avenues, beyond just MAX Yellow). Advanced bus signal to allow for turns etc.
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CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I imagine this is why the station is on the on-ramp. I get on the MY at 54 Ave and it sucks to stand on the side of Crowchild traffic doing 80km/h.
I've never actually found the bus takes very long at all to go up the ramp to 33rd and then back. It helps that there's the bus lane on the shoulder. And yes to everything downtown.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
The reason was there was a plan to have Max Yellow cross through Richmond Green into Currie at one point. That would have required the bus to turn onto Crowchild at 33rd, so the stop had to be on the on-ramp.
That plan - and most of Currie - never materialized. Which is why you have the bus existing and entering Crowchild at 33rd, instead of just doing a simple underpass stop like at 26th Avenue (ironically, despite being permanent and much more certain, 26th Avenue station was never upgraded to MAX standards, so remains a low-quality underpass nightmare stop, but that's another story).
This may seem like small details but really does matter - the ramp location puts the stop another 100m+ from the area of density, plus adds lots of potential signal delays to access the stop and more road crossings and safety risks for pedestrians. Existing conditions are pretty good, all we need is to get the MAX Yellow to be slightly faster - say 5 minutes from Marda Loop to downtown - and it's time-competitive with driving. 5 minutes of average time savings can be accomplished by reducing the walk time, increasing the frequencies and improving the reliability (downtown bus lanes, fewer signals to cross at 33rd etc.)
shermanator
Active Member
Max Yellow isn't a faster option han the 13, 22 or 7 for large portions of Marda Loop. Maybe faster in terms of time on the bus, but not in overall trip.
I checked the various transit options from my house to my office on 3rd Avenue at this very minute. Max Yellow would take 40 minutes. Route 13 would take 27 minutes. Route 7 would take 34 minutes. Route 22 wasn't even recommended. Driving would be 16.
Max Yellow is the worst option available to me. And that is why people like me don't use it.
I checked the various transit options from my house to my office on 3rd Avenue at this very minute. Max Yellow would take 40 minutes. Route 13 would take 27 minutes. Route 7 would take 34 minutes. Route 22 wasn't even recommended. Driving would be 16.
Max Yellow is the worst option available to me. And that is why people like me don't use it.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
I'd actually try using it and not go by the data alone. I use to ride the 7 or 13 but switch to MY. I walk 10 minutes (what Google says is 20) to the 54th Ave stop and catch it at 7:20. I'm at my desk on 6th Ave at 7:45. I couldn't do that on the 7 or 13. I also found MY much more reliable in the winter.
Going home on Wednesday afternoons, I leave the office early to avoid 6th Ave getting backed up after even 4PM. If you get caught trying to take MY post 4:15 or 4:30PM on Wednesday be prepared to be patient.
shermanator
Active Member
"Ignore the data presented to you" and "be prepared to be patient" are not good arguments to get people to adopt transit that is supposed to be faster. If we want people to adopt transit for incentives that are not financially motivated it has to be reliable and faster than other options.
In reality I took the bus for my daily commute from Marda Loop downtown for years and will gladly pay significantly more money to not have to take it. In the morning it has been quite good, but coming home it is dreadful. If I'm going to be stuck in traffic I might as well do it in my own car and with the ability to pivot to get around set routes.
CallmeCatbread
Active Member
The MAX lines are completely useless if they don't have priority and ideally grade separation along their entire route. It's ridiculous that they're considered rapid transit
potatopizzafan
Active Member
I also live in the marda area, work downtown and have commuted every which way. I primarily ride my bike which is about 15 minutes. Bus is closer to 30 minutes, but in the afternoon its horrendous, its taken close to an hour a few times, which is about the same time it takes me to walk home.
Riding a bike is so far superior to every other option, the only times i dont ride in is when its below -15 or so. Its faster, cheaper, consistent, fun etc etc.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
You're not wrong but its the reality.
I use to ride almost everyday too. Once I found the MY, I stopped. I should start to ride again.
I find the MY just fine but I know it isn't what it could be. And it definitely doesn't work for everyone I do think it is better than the 7 and 13 though. Something will need to be done if Marda Loop is going to be as dense as this proposal and others will make it. The main streets will finish and then we'll get a real feel for where things stand.
CBBarnett
Senior Member
I also ride in from the area on most days - cycling is for sure the way to go for that distance. It's the only mode of travel that is reasonably short and 99% reliable for expected trip time. Next time I need a new bike it will be an e-bike and that eliminates the hill to get into Marda making it even easier.
You are right about the return trip - something bizarre has long been occurring on all these inner-SW bus routes, where morning isn't too bad, but afternoon is terrible - MY, Route 6, 7, 22 and others get hit with this same inconsistency. I blame the lack of transit priority downtown, outdated network design, and the downtown one-way arterial system not working well for transit. The inner SW routes - and most of the city for that matter - could benefit from a stop pruning to cut back 25 - 50% of the existing stops to speed buses up too.
adamyyc
Active Member
Return trips from downtown to Marda Loop are definitely unpredictable. I will just jump on whichever one I see between the MY, 7, 13 or 22, because I can never trust the schedule for any of those routes. My new office is also not a great location for the return trip for those routes any more, because the routes don't have common/central stops near one another, like my old office did.
trtcttc
Senior Member
There's pretty wide area under the underpass. Could they carve out a bus stop lane, add floor to ceiling glass panels - heated with lighting, to create an underpass station that isn't unsafe? The 26th Ave station is pretty terrible.
I'll trust the people that live there, but I think people also get off at 8th Ave, because that's the only c-train stop, including those that would've gotten off at Sunalta. I wish the Max network generally behave more like a train, whereas now it's more a commuter service. Trains are expensive, but you'd never have the trains cross path and not stop.