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Calgary Transit

Silence&Motion said:
Because west of 37th street, 17th ave is basically an expressway. There is virtually no possibility of functional TOD around 45 St, Sirocco, or 69 St stations.
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I’m not sure you can consider 17th an express way. Besides the interchange at Sarcee, there are lights regularly from 37 to 69th. The speed limits sure don’t allow fast speeds
I’m not sure what you would recommend at 45th. It’s single family housing on the south side, police station on the NE side. There are low rise condos all through the north side all ready. Doubt any developer would start a TOD there when all that land between 33&37 exists
 
Golfing guy said:
I’m not sure you can consider 17th an express way. Besides the interchange at Sarcee, there are lights regularly from 37 to 69th. The speed limits sure don’t allow fast speeds
I’m not sure what you would recommend at 45th. It’s single family housing on the south side, police station on the NE side. There are low rise condos all through the north side all ready. Doubt any developer would start a TOD there when all that land between 33&37 exists
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By expressway I mean that it’s bordered by huge shoulders and sound barrier walls and has limited access from the surrounding neighborhoods. There would be no chance of building any kind of well-connected, tightly-knit TOD. This is the exact opposite of the urban form that should surround a mass transit line.
 
Silence&Motion said:
By expressway I mean that it’s bordered by huge shoulders and sound barrier walls and has limited access from the surrounding neighborhoods. There would be no chance of building any kind of well-connected, tightly-knit TOD. This is the exact opposite of the urban form that should surround a mass transit line.
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I'm not sure they needed to do anything differently to be honest. When they built that section of LRT, the houses and roads were already in place, they were building the LRT to service the area as it existed. Doing it differently would have required a lot of changes, and thus a lot of money. I'm not sure it's needed to be honest, I'm fine with some of the end stations being more like suburban commuter stops. There are only so many TODs needed in a city this size, and they are evolving in the places naturally suited for them.
 
Here's my two cents. I like the LRT the way it is, like a hybrid of a commuter system and a metro style system. We have to keep in mind that Calgary is a metro area of 1.5M....akin to a city like Hartford or Oklahoma City, and this needs to be kept in mind when building out the system.

Regarding TODs
-With 45 stations already in the system, we don't need every station to be a TOD. We simply don't have the population to do that, and the areas that are best suited for TODs are already going that direction.

Regarding grade separation
-We don't need the whole system to be grade separated, especially suburban section- the trains already have the right of way, and the cost to make it all grade separate isn't worth it. It buys you very little. There are a few places in the inner city areas that would be great if grade separated - mostly the downtown corridor. The one that drives me nuts is the crossing at 5th and SW, heading over to Sunnyside. I can't stand that the train doesn't have the right of way...same for any of the downtown stops, but once the city eventually buries the Red Line undeground, I'll be happy.
 
Cowtown said:
We have to keep in mind that Calgary is a metro area of 1.5M....akin to a city like Hartford or Oklahoma City, and this needs to be kept in mind when building out the system.
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Hartford's urban density is ~1000/km2. Oklahoma City's is ~800/km2. Calgary is over 2000/km2!! We're nothing like those cities in terms of urban form.

Anyway, what's done is done in terms of the existing LRT lines. However, 'park-and-ride' style commuter rail stations are basically just a giant public subsidy for car-centric suburban sprawl. They don't replace car trips. They generate car trips by forcing people to drive for at least part of their daily commute.

The ideal transit stations should be built at the center of neighborhoods, not on the outer fringe. They should be surrounded by mixed-use mid-rise development which then moves into lower-rise, more exclusively residential development. The LRT/BRT lines on the east side of the city (the blue line in the NE, the future green line in the SE, and the BRT along 17 ave SE), while leaving a lot to be desired, have a lot more potential in this respect.

BTW: as a background to this, I'm of the view that we should simply stop building neighborhoods that aren't designed to be completely walkable. So I don't agree that we should have walkable TOD in the inner-city and car-centric park-and-ride commuter development in the suburbs. There's no reason that new neighborhoods on the outskirts of the city can't be designed in ways that allow people to walk or take transit for all of their basic, daily trips.
 
Cowtown said:
Here's my two cents. I like the LRT the way it is, like a hybrid of a commuter system and a metro style system. We have to keep in mind that Calgary is a metro area of 1.5M....akin to a city like Hartford or Oklahoma City, and this needs to be kept in mind when building out the system.

Regarding TODs
-With 45 stations already in the system, we don't need every station to be a TOD. We simply don't have the population to do that, and the areas that are best suited for TODs are already going that direction.

Regarding grade separation
-We don't need the whole system to be grade separated, especially suburban section- the trains already have the right of way, and the cost to make it all grade separate isn't worth it. It buys you very little. There are a few places in the inner city areas that would be great if grade separated - mostly the downtown corridor. The one that drives me nuts is the crossing at 5th and SW, heading over to Sunnyside. I can't stand that the train doesn't have the right of way...same for any of the downtown stops, but once the city eventually buries the Red Line undeground, I'll be happy.
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I think there is a lot of value in keeping the commuter nature however with that being said will we ever see the C-Train go to Okotoks or Airdrie? Or does that warrant a system that is 100% commuter oriented?

That being said there's lots of density around downtown/midtown that isn't super close to transit, maybe a midtown line could make sense?
 
There are long range plans to continue the greenline north to Airdrie, having it run adjacent to Airdrie's 24th Street.
 
Silence&Motion said:
Because west of 37th street, 17th ave is basically an expressway. There is virtually no possibility of functional TOD around 45 St, Sirocco, or 69 St stations.
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What about the AMA site right beside 45th street station?

It's a fair sized property that's currently being underutilized. If designed properly a 4-6 story multi-family development could greatly increase the number of units within 500m of the station.
 
Reecemartin said:
I think there is a lot of value in keeping the commuter nature however with that being said will we ever see the C-Train go to Okotoks or Airdrie? Or does that warrant a system that is 100% commuter oriented?
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Probably not. IIRC this was discussed on SSP a few years ago and someone said that it is completely unfeasible. Head times of trains and sequencing would be horrendous. It'll just be a bus service for the foreseeable future. Which is okay in my opinion...I think if we had a commuter train it would create a greater incentive for people to live in the bedroom communities outside of Calgary.

http://onitregionaltransit.ca/commuter-bus-service/

Reecemartin said:
That being said there's lots of density around downtown/midtown that isn't super close to transit, maybe a midtown line could make sense?
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I don't think a C-train in the beltline would be all that reasonable. Most people that live in the beltline walk/bike to downtown to work or walk/bike to nearby amenities. Plus, there are a few decent bus routes that service the area. #3, #6 and #7 come to mind off the top of my head. IIRC the Beltine had over 50% of all trips via active transportation. I'll see if I can dig up the stats.

However, I'd love to see a streetcar go from Westbrook station the Victoria Park station via 17th ave. ;)
 
Social Justice said:
What about the AMA site right beside 45th street station?

It's a fair sized property that's currently being underutilized. If designed properly a 4-6 story multi-family development could greatly increase the number of units within 500m of the station.
Click to expand...

That would increase the number of people who could walk to the station, but most of the people who would live in that development would still probably use a car for almost all of their other daily trips since the closest commercial areas are still at least a 15 minute walk away.
 
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