Calgary public disorder & safety thread.

[Mountain Man]

What is going on in this city these days?! I was walking back from lunch and had to chase some methed out tweaker away from some girl he was terrifying only to see another guy run into the road and almost get hit by a car then kick the car and run off. Central Memorial Park is an open air drug market, Sidewalk Citizen must be close to going under from it. Not a cop in sight, no enforcement and the province is too busy banning books and fighting bike lanes to address real problems. Calgary is now as bad as Vancouver, this is very bad and needs to stop! but everyone seems to still hope ignoring it will make the problem go away. I've never seen it as bad as I did at lunch today, what in the actual fuck!

 

[Surrealplaces]

It is noticeable worse than it was a few years, for sure before covid. A few years back I used to take my son to Central Memorial Park, and we stopped by the other day to hang out......nope, not anymore. It's not a nice park to go to anymore.

My son was a making a Portlandia intro type video, but a Calgary version and we thought we'd go around the downtown and Beltline to grab some shots. It seemed like every place we went, there were homeless people. I never noticed the situation getting worse probably because I'm around downtown a lot and for me it's been a slow progression.
Anyhow it's a problem we as a society need to sort out, and there doesn't appear to be much progress anywhere.

 

[blue12]

No matter who you vote in, federally, provincially, or municipally, they've sat back and let it get worse. And then the candidates/parties just fight with each other about how to "solve" the issue while never actually doing that. Even the police don't do anything. A complete and utter betrayal of the public *and* the homeless people/addicts themselves that could be getting help but aren't.

 

[Mountain Man]

It is noticeable worse than it was a few years, for sure before covid. A few years back I used to take my son to Central Memorial Park, and we stopped by the other day to hang out......nope, not anymore. It's not a nice park to go to anymore.

My son was a making a Portlandia intro type video, but a Calgary version and we thought we'd go around the downtown and Beltline to grab some shots. It seemed like every place we went, there were homeless people. I never noticed the situation getting worse probably because I'm around downtown a lot and for me it's been a slow progression.
Anyhow it's a problem we as a society need to sort out, and there doesn't appear to be much progress anywhere.

It seems to have gotten 2x worse just this summer. There was a noticeable spike after Covid, but that spike is still rapidly growing. Being downtown I expect to see some disorder, but it's just spiraling right now.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

I think there is a recent increase in the issues visibility. As our population increases, I assume, our population of these people increases too.

I don't know enough to say that Police are not enforcing the laws or that what we're seeing as a problem is too small to warrant their attention. What I do know is more needs to be done.

I can see how people can get a law and order mindset with things like this. Personally, my views have shifted.

 

[Albertasaurus]

To be fair to the police, it's a very difficult issue to solve, and there is not a whole lot they can do. They can issue a citation, knowing that the perpetrator will not pay the fine or turn up in court. In most cases there isn't grounds for an arrest. If they force them out of one part of downtown, they just move to another. From the police perspective it's like playing an endless game of whack-a-mole. Every other big city in North America is suffering this problem, but the location of the DI right in the middle of our riverfront, and its enormous size, pose an additional challenge for Calgary.

No matter the approach you advocate for, there will need to be big investment, from all levels of government, to turn this around. I'm not always an advocate for more government spending, but this is one area I would hope most people agree needs more investment, from a safety perspective, from a downtown revitalization perspective, and most importantly, from a humanist perspective - to give as many of these people as possible the help they need.

 

[Mountain Man]

It's just how blatant it all is, people don't even try to hide it anymore and CPS are nowhere to be seen. There's all this talk about how to fix it, but zero action.

To be fair to the police, it's a very difficult issue to solve, and there is not a whole lot they can do. They can issue a citation, knowing that the perpetrator will not pay the fine or turn up in court. In most cases there isn't grounds for an arrest. If they force them out of one part of downtown, they just move to another. From the police perspective it's like playing an endless game of whack-a-mole. Every other big city in North America is suffering this problem, but the location of the DI right in the middle of our riverfront, and its enormous size, pose an additional challenge for Calgary.

No matter the approach you advocate for, there will need to be big investment, from all levels of government, to turn this around. I'm not always an advocate for more government spending, but this is one area I would hope most people agree needs more investment, from a safety perspective, from a downtown revitalization perspective, and most importantly, from a humanist perspective - to give as many of these people as possible the help they need.

I see open dealing all the time, selling drugs is a crime that should yield jail time. It shouldn't be hard for CPS to at least do something about that part.

 

[Albertasaurus]

Agreed, but it seems like the police focus very much on busting the larger scale operations. Not sure why that is, or if they are being directed not to bother with the smalltime dealers. I did a bit of research on federal penalties and there are minimum sentences that could get these people in jail for at least a year or so. Controversial take, but should selling a drug as deadly and life destroying as fentanyl be considered on par with attempted murder or at least attempted manslaughter?

 

[Mountain Man]

I doubt the conviction would stick, but it would be worth a shot. Beats doing nothing

 

[Surrealplaces]

The issue of drug trafficking is a weird one. Locking up all the dealers wouldn't completely clear the problem, but it would help, and like Mountain said said, doing nothing obviously isn't helping.

When I was at Central Park the other day I was surprised by the downward vibe of the park, and thought maybe it was just a 'one of' type day, but it doesn't sound like it. I haven't been downtown near as much as I have in past years, due to work and vacation, etc.. but it felt different than in past years.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

there are minimum sentences that could get these people in jail for at least a year or so.

I think this is where you can meaningfully start to make a change. The crime is there but as you said, I'm not sure if they're trying to catch bigger fish. Police have to be able to do the micro and macro things. The question would be can you hold someone without bail until their trial? I'm not sure what the precedent is... Personally I think being a danger to yourself and the public by consuming drugs in public is something that should get someone held without bail.

Now, where do you put them because if you start using those parameters, you'll start to fill up jails pretty quickly. It isn't great but how quickly could ATCO build a modular low-security jail?

 

[Mountain Man]

When I was at Central Park the other day I was surprised by the downward vibe of the park, and thought maybe it was just a 'one of' type day, but it doesn't sound like it. I haven't been downtown near as much as I have in past years, due to work and vacation, etc.. but it felt different than in past years.

There have always been homeless in the park, but lately they have just taken it over, especially on the west side. The park has a very DTES Vancouver vibe to it these days, very depressing. I wonder what shuttering the consumption site at the Chumir will do, it won't solve the problem but it may move it away from the park.

 

[Surrealplaces]

It feels a lot like we're heading to forced rehab as a quasi type jail system. I'm not necessarily for it or against it at this stage. We'll know how things work once that happens. Either way, as a society we need to spend some money to fix the issue. Unfortunately too many suburban tax payers, view the issues downtown as not being their problem.

 

[Surrealplaces]

There have always been homeless in the park, but lately they have just taken it over, especially on the west side. The park has a very DTES Vancouver vibe to it these days, very depressing. I wonder what shuttering the consumption site at the Chumir will do, it won't solve the problem but it may move it away from the park.

For sure. I mean there always were homeless people there, but I agree, the visit the other night felt more like something from Vancouver.

 

[CalgaryTiger]

It should be said, there is a difference between a homeless person and I think the people we're talking about. If you think it is bad for us, I cannot imagine what it is like to be in shelters with these people if you a person who simply cannot afford a roof and food but don't have a drug problem.

Unfortunately too many suburban tax payers, view the issues downtown as not being their problem.

This is true, and every order of government seems to point the finger at the other. They all need to come together and do something.