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Infill Development Discussion

people.talking

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Yeah thats generally the case. Infills is usually the redevelopment of inner city land, typically to increase density, and that's usually by dividing a plot of land into duplexes or townhouses.
 

haltcatchfire

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I'd wager if you had two million free and clear, acquired a 50' lot at the right price in the right location, knew what you were doing in construction, and had a good designer you could probably make 8%-10%.
 

rpeng

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I'd wager if you had two million free and clear, acquired a 50' lot at the right price in the right location, knew what you were doing in construction, and had a good designer you could probably make 8%-10%.
thats it? you can make more in tfsa, and you would likely make that on a slow year in stocks.
 

bgarneau

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Nothing like having a contextual setback for R-C2 and R-CG to relate to existing bungalows, when the final condition of the street is nothing like it and none of the bungalows are left. So you can build towns or semi-detached in the inner-city with a typical front setback of 7-9m, or 1m in R-G in the burbs. Why do we give more urban front setbacks in Mahogany than in West Hillhurst? Contextual setbacks are completely idiotic and produce such bad outcomes (postage stamp backyards, huge unused grass front setback areas) for inner city streets.

For example, tiny backyards, huge front lawns, one bungalow left on the street to dictate the setback (Altadore):
View attachment 276336

"Inner City infill" Altadore:
View attachment 276337\
"Urban Infill" West Hillhurst:View attachment 276340

Suburban Mckenzie Towne:
View attachment 276338

Suburban Walden:
View attachment 276339

Even Single-family in the suburbs have more favourable interaction with the street and more reasonable setbacks:
View attachment 276341

Contextual setbacks have ruined our ability to create more urban streetscapes in the inner-city for decades, only to appease neighbours today. Whereas it is genuinely easier to build denser more urban forms of housing in the new suburbs.
This city is really good at saying they want/need something, and the doing the opposite.

Need densification of established communities = approve more sprawl
Need better urban planning principals which improve pedestrian life = concede to NYMBIs on front lawns.

The whole concept of front lawns is archaic. I think it came from medieval times when it was a sign of wealth/security. Remnant of the past and useless for modern society.
 

bgarneau

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thats it? you can make more in tfsa, and you would likely make that on a slow year in stocks.
Also, interest rates on construction are super low.

So your $2mm project is costing you $200k in equity (at 10% LTV), and you're taking 8-10% on the full $2mm....

It's actually a great investment.
 

rpeng

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Also, interest rates on construction are super low.

So your $2mm project is costing you $200k in equity (at 10% LTV), and you're taking 8-10% on the full $2mm....

It's actually a great investment.
so you can get 8-10% on the 2million with 200k invested, so the roi is 80%-100%? i can see why people do it now. I find that ROI high tho
 

haltcatchfire

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so you can get 8-10% on the 2million with 200k invested, so the roi is 80%-100%? i can see why people do it now. I find that ROI high tho
Not completely. With construction financing at sub 2% you’re financing 65% of the construction cost for the 1-2 years of the project. Assume land is purchased with cash first.
 

Calgcouver

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I'd wager if you had two million free and clear, acquired a 50' lot at the right price in the right location, knew what you were doing in construction, and had a good designer you could probably make 8%-10%.
That’s pretty accurate and profit margin on cost is below the 15% you’d want to see a proforma to say go on for a lot of little R-CG projects. People are making a go of it though, feel time on the market is a killer for some though.
 

haltcatchfire

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That’s pretty accurate and profit margin on cost is below the 15% you’d want to see a proforma to say go on for a lot of little R-CG projects. People are making a go of it though, feel time on the market is a killer for some though.
I hope they all fail. Sick of all the ugly conjoined twins. Plus nobody wants to live attached to an aspiring country singer.
 

MichaelS

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I hope they all fail. Sick of all the ugly conjoined twins. Plus nobody wants to live attached to an aspiring country singer.
Do you feel there would be a better form of redevelopment in these neighbourhoods, along residential streets that are only partly turned over?
 

haltcatchfire

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Better form in my opinion doesn’t meet profit performance of builders unfortunately. Give me 17’ houses on 25’ lots and 4+ rowhouse units. As minimal front setback as possible. Zero with a porch is best.

I just can’t wrap my head around buying half a house that comes pre-set with residents you have no choice but to live with. Most people can’t even handle a fence replacement process with their neighbour. At least in a complex you get a bit of resistance to the crazy person by them being a minority in the population.

The contextual front setback is a huge forced hand. Developers get 400 more square feet per side with a semi-detached that’s critical to make the economics work, and to retain the already postage sized backyard.

On a 25’x120’ I can fit a 1900 sq ft single family when it’s zero front setback, 8’ porch or portico, 22’ deep detached garage and still end up with a 36’ deep backyard. Not to mention windows and light penetration on all four sides.
 
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