Urban Development and Proposals Discussion

[Roaring Flames]

The fieldhouse component as is, is 462,730 sq ft spread across 2 floors, and most of that is on floor 1. The footprint will likely be almost 400,000 sqft. The Seton YMCA is 330,000 and Rocky Ridge is 284,000. Southland Leisure Centre is about 227,000. Adding an ice rink and pool would probably make this the largest indoor facility in the country.

Considering our lack of facilities, and the inner city location near a ctrain station, the scale would probably have not been too much of an issue. Especially considering you're replacing the foothills aquatic centre and Father David Bauer arena (two facilities at the end of life) anyways. Also the reason the Fieldhouse is so big is mainly because of that indoor track plus field.
But like I said, it would likely make this too expensive to do as a single large leisure centre facility, hence why they went with replacing the aquatic centre and FDB arena in later stages in separate developments. And why it's just something I wish they could have done.

 

[lemongrab]

I think we should proceed with the fieldhouse as is. The facility is slated to be massive already, I don't think we'd expand it anymore even with additional land. And whatever happens to McMahon, I don't see how it conflicts with the fieldhouse. If it is demolished, we'd still build the fieldhouse where it is now. It's taken half a decade to get to this point with no shovels on the ground, if we wait for McMahon that's another 5 years to decide on McMahon, few years for demolition, and then another decade for planning and building a fieldhouse. If this is identified as a need now, a generation of people would grow up before this thing gets built.

This is a radical idea, but I really hate the idea of turning Crowchild into the Grand Glenmore Canyon 2.0. Instead, cut and cover 2 lanes each way one block west of current Crowchild. Convert current Crowchild and 24 St to a Main Street, reclaiming a bunch of prime land close to Uni and red line. I think this would make the tunnel* flirt with the east edge of the fieldhouse location, and then it would still go through the Mormon church as the current plan requires.

Maybe it's still a good location for the fieldhouse, but if we spent a billion dollars on limited access grade separation from Memorial to 24th (instead of four brutal interchanges) - effectively deleting the freeway - then I think the whole McMahon parcel would be far more valuable as University District 2.0. Maybe the fieldhouse could go to Shouldice, or on/around the Brentwood Park and Ride.

*Maybe it doesn't even need to be a full load bearing covered tunnel - the surface could be more of a pedestrian promenade. In this thought experiment Memorial to 16th would be elevated, with a Main Street below.

 

[trtcttc]

This is a radical idea, but I really hate the idea of turning Crowchild into the Grand Glenmore Canyon 2.0. Instead, cut and cover 2 lanes each way one block west of current Crowchild. Convert current Crowchild and 24 St to a Main Street, reclaiming a bunch of prime land close to Uni and red line. I think this would make the tunnel* flirt with the east edge of the fieldhouse location, and then it would still go through the Mormon church as the current plan requires.

Maybe it's still a good location for the fieldhouse, but if we spent a billion dollars on limited access grade separation from Memorial to 24th (instead of four brutal interchanges) - effectively deleting the freeway - then I think the whole McMahon parcel would be far more valuable as University District 2.0. Maybe the fieldhouse could go to Shouldice, or on/around the Brentwood Park and Ride.

*Maybe it doesn't even need to be a full load bearing covered tunnel - the surface could be more of a pedestrian promenade. In this thought experiment Memorial to 16th would be elevated, with a Main Street below.

The idea is interesting, but I also find that if we want to build walkable, urban communities, part of it is using land for the amenities that make urban life possible. In this hypothetical UD 2.0 scenario and we moved the field house to Shouldice because this land is "too valuable",doesn't that detract from the entire walkable, urban part of this plan? We built facilities like Rocky Ridge and Seton because land is cheaper out there, but by building amenities so far away, we incentivize building out by minimizing the tradeoffs.

The land here is also quite a bit complicated. The University owns McMahon, but I don't think they own the land underneath. If McMahon is ever torn down, the land goes back to the city. While the EV has it's own unique challenges that isn't present here, I'm far form confident the city can pull of UD 2.0 and I don't think that's really part of the city's role.

 

[lemongrab]

The idea is interesting, but I also find that if we want to build walkable, urban communities, part of it is using land for the amenities that make urban life possible. In this hypothetical UD 2.0 scenario and we moved the field house to Shouldice because this land is "too valuable",doesn't that detract from the entire walkable, urban part of this plan? We built facilities like Rocky Ridge and Seton because land is cheaper out there, but by building amenities so far away, we incentivize building out by minimizing the tradeoffs.

The land here is also quite a bit complicated. The University owns McMahon, but I don't think they own the land underneath. If McMahon is ever torn down, the land goes back to the city. While the EV has it's own unique challenges that isn't present here, I'm far form confident the city can pull of UD 2.0 and I don't think that's really part of the city's role.

If we scaled it down from a mega facility with mega parking then it could make more sense to stay, but then it isn't really the same project anymore.

I think even better than Shouldice would be this area:

Mega parking with the fieldhouse is probably inevitable, but it would be nice if we could at least stop building redundant parking lots beside each other (a good smaller scale example is if you've ever played volleyball at Rally Pointe - their lot and street parking overflow in the evenings beside hundreds of 9-5 stalls on private property sitting empty).

The PnR and all the nearby lots here are primarily used 9-5. A fieldhouse will be primarily evenings and weekends. This is kind of true around McMahon, too, but we would compromise access to the fieldhouse a dozen days a year if the Stamps stay there; not the end of the world in itself, but it adds to the opportunity costs.

Pretty sure U of C fully owns the land under McMahon

The university acquired complete ownership of the stadium and land in 1985 following the retirement of the original financing from 1973, and after signing a land exchange agreement with the City of Calgary.

https://godinos.com/facilities/mcmahon-stadium/1

 

[Cowtown]

Calgary’s Drop-In Centre pressured to pull out of downtown. Province supports search for new model​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-drop-in-centre-decentralization-9.7142359

I'd expect a "Boss Battle" level of NIMBYism for any potential proposed locations in other areas. Good luck with that.

This is wonderful news. As long as the homeless still get support, I’m 100% in support of seeing it moved and decentralized. That part of downtown is very valuable and strategic to Calgary inner-city core and vibrancy. Moving the DIC is the catalyst needed for East village and even Bridgeland.