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AI Data Centre Industry Discussion Thread

Surrealplaces said:
There will be some jobs related to the data centres themselves, though I don't think it'll be big numbers. As much as anything, the data centres will help boost the natural gas industry. A strong natural gas industry would be good for Alberta as oil declines.
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There will also be a signficant boost in property tax revenue for the jurisdictions they are constructed in.
 
O-tac said:
It still astounds me that anyone who isn’t a CEO techbro can think that this ai bubble and it’s enormously wasteful and environmentally damaging data centres are a good thing. Beyond the enormous quantity of energy they consume they waste tons of freshwater too. In case you guys hadn’t noticed water is becoming scarcer in Alberta. The UCP is already screwing farmers in the south to benefit coal mines. Now this.

And I don’t buy the economic benefits either. Besides lining the pockets of big tech companies these places only offer temporary construction jobs. I don’t believe we’ll even get provincial ‘royalties’ or whatever you wanna call it. This whole thing is a ponzi scheme pitched by Kevin O’Leary and Danielle Smith when they visited Mar a Lago and recently UAE and Saudi Arabia. Think about it, even if they sell natural gas for now, there’s nothing to say these companies won’t switch to nuclear or hydro from BC down the road.

And then of course there’s the existential threat of the technology itself, all of the social harms and the attack on every profession from doctors to writers to artists to educators. Who needs to drain a lake to generate an image of Donald Trump blowing Bill Clinton?

Figures Smith would push this shit while blocking renewable energy products. Fits her MO of hating workers, children, thinkers, educators, healthcare providers and especially the environment. The fact she pitched this to Dump while he was threatening to annex us as the 51st state while the rest of the country has been unified and fighting back makes it even worse.
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Most of the data centers are being proposed for points further north where gas and water are plentiful.

The Province isn't "screwing" anyone with water. The South Saskatchewan Basin has been capped for water rights for over two decades. The only way to acquire water is to buy rights from someone else.
 
Don't forget that all the stock gains now are based on the AI bubble and when (not if) it fails, it will not be the tech bro's that lose. It will be your pension. Get ready for it.
 
Yeah its gonna pop soon.. Smart money is bailing on a lot of big players already.

Doesn't seem like many of the DC proposals won't get a chance to get going, but the good news is that any that are built and left surplus when the AI bubble bursts can be repurposed for indoor agriculture. And not just the smokable kind, but aquaponics, vertical greenhouses and the like as well.
 
HudsonA08 said:
Don't forget that all the stock gains now are based on the AI bubble and when (not if) it fails, it will not be the tech bro's that lose. It will be your pension. Get ready for it.
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Not many AI or AI adjacent companies meet the investment governance of pension funds. This is not like the dot com where telecom was incorrectly viewed as low risk

I'd worry more about the impact of bubbles in sovereign debt and real estate to pension funds.
 
DougB said:
Most of the data centers are being proposed for points further north where gas and water are plentiful.

The Province isn't "screwing" anyone with water. The South Saskatchewan Basin has been capped for water rights for over two decades. The only way to acquire water is to buy rights from someone else.
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Or to buy UCP politicians and have them ram through your new coal mine like Gina Reinhart did.
 
O-tac said:
Or to buy UCP politicians and have them ram through your new coal mine like Gina Reinhart did.
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O-tac said:
Or to buy UCP politicians and have them ram through your new coal mine like Gina Reinhart did.
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That is irrelevant but makes for great rhetoric.

All politicians could potentially do is use government money to buy water rights from existing holders. Can't see any motivation in doing so other than to allocate water for municipal use. Thus far, Okotoks bought rights from an irrigation district and Cochrane from the Girl Guides.

Alberta is cold enough that the water use by data centers would be much smaller than elsewhere. Plus the technology is improving at a rapid rate. Some data centers recover the heat and use it to generate more electricity.
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
Yeah its gonna pop soon.. Smart money is bailing on a lot of big players already.

Doesn't seem like many of the DC proposals won't get a chance to get going, but the good news is that any that are built and left surplus when the AI bubble bursts can be repurposed for indoor agriculture. And not just the smokable kind, but aquaponics, vertical greenhouses and the like as well.
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Most of the investment is in rapidly depreciating GPUs, and power generation. The buildings are basically warehouses. If the operations go bust, the only residual value would be the power generation assets which could be used repurposed to supply the grid. Can't see much downside.

The big value proposition for Alberta is to increase gas volumes and prices, which would flow through to the Provincial treasury.
 
DougB said:
Most of the investment is in rapidly depreciating GPUs, and power generation. The buildings are basically warehouses. If the operations go bust, the only residual value would be the power generation assets which could be used repurposed to supply the grid. Can't see much downside.

The big value proposition for Alberta is to increase gas volumes and prices, which would flow through to the Provincial treasury.
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That's another challenge for the surge of off grid DC proposals, there's already a backlog on turbines


DougB said:
Some data centers recover the heat and use it to generate more electricity.
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Given the relatively remote locations of the facilities, successful DCs could still become hybrid models with attached greenhouses making use of the waste heat from servers. Could divert some of the waste co2 from the generators as well.

Beyond the immediate benefits of improved food security, factoring in the reduction of energy costs of importing produce from Mexico and California, along with a holistic DC design would effectively make these facilities carbon negative!
 
The gas turbine shortage is not unique to Alberta and regardless, gas fired power can still come online faster than can nuclear or stored water hydro.

Heat recovery directed to greenhouses has been tried and failed in the past. Nova Gas Transmission (now the NGTL division of TC Energy) built a large facility at its Empress compressor facility in the 80s. It failed as even with free heat it still could not compete with the scale of California farms. I did a science project on it while in High School. Empress is also considerably warmer and sunnier in the winter than locations in Northern Alberta.
 
DougB said:
Heat recovery directed to greenhouses has been tried and failed in the past. Nova Gas Transmission (now the NGTL division of TC Energy) built a large facility at its Empress compressor facility in the 80s. It failed as even with free heat it still could not compete with the scale of California farms
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Interesting, any references you can point me to? I'd like to read more about that.

Searching for nova gas, greenhouses and empress ab isn't giving me much.
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
Interesting, any references you can point me to? I'd like to read more about that.

Searching for nova gas, greenhouses and empress ab isn't giving me much.
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You could likely contact Investor Relations at TC to request Nova annual reports from about 83 to 87.The U of C Library may also have physical copies. Nova also had greenhouses at Joffre.

I did a multi-discipline report in Grade 11 on the initiative that crossed Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Social Studies. Nova invited me to your the Empress facility and provided access to subject matter experts. The operation depended heavily on provincial subsidies targeted at economic diversification.

Another interesting project from that era was the Sprung greenhouse that located on what is now Refinery Park.

In Grade 12 I did a multi-discipline report on Alberta's sour gas industry after a Social Studies teacher claimed that the yellow residue left behind by Spring rains was sulfur precipitating from pollution caused by sour gas processing plants. I demonstrated that she was wrong using Chemistry and Biology
 
DougB said:
You could likely contact Investor Relations at TC to request Nova annual reports from about 83 to 87.The U of C Library may also have physical copies. Nova also had greenhouses at Joffre.

I did a multi-discipline report in Grade 11 on the initiative that crossed Biology, Chemistry, Physics and Social Studies. Nova invited me to your the Empress facility and provided access to subject matter experts. The operation depended heavily on provincial subsidies targeted at economic diversification.

Another interesting project from that era was the Sprung greenhouse that located on what is now Refinery Park.

In Grade 12 I did a multi-discipline report on Alberta's sour gas industry after a Social Studies teacher claimed that the yellow residue left behind by Spring rains was sulfur precipitating from pollution caused by sour gas processing plants. I demonstrated that she was wrong using Chemistry and Biology
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Neat, thanks for the info! Don't really know much about AB in the 80s, but sounds like the was some big thinking going on.

Also sounds like high school was a lot more interesting before widespread computers and internet..
 
InfrastructureEnthusiast said:
but sounds like the was some big thinking going on.
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Alberta had run out of oil both in quantity and price decline, and was searching for the next big thing. The government was chasing all sorts of opportunities. Heck. all the provincial land in the deep NW was purchased / consolidated into a tech manufacturing park to try to win the huge Intel fab competition that Portland/environs won in the early 80s.
 
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