Mountain Man
Senior Member
Very true, couldn't imagine someone just having a hard time surrounded by those with bad addictions or suffering a mental health crisis. We need housing for the actual homeless and treatment for the others.
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Calgary public disorder & safety thread.
- Thread starter Mountain Man
- Start date
That's why I think we need to get a better housing solution going. I'm not talking about housing the people who are too far gone, but housing those who aren't severely addicted and can be helped.
darwink
Senior Member
The cost issue is daunting. Because it isn't just the current population, but the continual intake and need for continual care to varying degrees. So over time, a system that works becomes progressively more expensive, with repeat rehabs, higher caseload for monitored perscription treatments, and varying degrees of supportive housing. Early intervention might lower some costs, but keeping people alive likely more than offsets that especially for supportive housing that looks a lot like nursing homes. The scale is also much larger than 'just' visible people without homes who use drugs. That is just the end of the descent, and the speed at which people reach that varies widely.
From date of first rehab, what I read is that the % without a relapse is around 1/3rd 5 years out. A well funded science initiative to find more successful strategies which lead to 'recovery, but self supported in community' outcomes is likely a key part of cost control. Have to not restrict what that science might investigate, like saying 'can't use other drugs either as one time or ongoing treatment'.
From date of first rehab, what I read is that the % without a relapse is around 1/3rd 5 years out. A well funded science initiative to find more successful strategies which lead to 'recovery, but self supported in community' outcomes is likely a key part of cost control. Have to not restrict what that science might investigate, like saying 'can't use other drugs either as one time or ongoing treatment'.
Red Star
Active Member
It's noticeably worse.
Last Friday night, I walking with my gf and some friends on 17th and some homeless people were posted up on the sidewalk in right in front of Ship&Anchor. They were sitting on cardboard boxes, had sheets strung up and were smoking out of a glass pipe. I've never seen open drug use to that degree before in Calgary.
It's really sad to see people fall to that state.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
I see open drug use all the time, people don't even try to hide it anymore. Our lax enforcement is making the problem worse. I remember being scared to smoke a joint in public, not people inject in the middle of the sidewalk.
trtcttc
Senior Member
Enforcement isn't going to get us anywhere without an alternative. When repeated murderers are being let out on bail, they are going to keep a drug addicted dealer in jail? I'm personally in support of much more restrictive sentences and harsher punishments, and Canada may be heading there with all the recent home invasions, but historically we've had relatively lax sentences, relying on social norms to maintain order.
The reason there's relatively little action politically is that it is expensive, and spending a lot of money on a population that is not influential. The province is funding two long term care related facilities in the inner city (Bethany in Hillhurst, and Bridgeland Continuing Care), would the majority of the population be happier if they didn't fund those projects and instead funded a drug rehab centre in downtown? It's easy to say we should fund all of them, but then there's schools, healthcare for regular citizens, transportation, etc. that there has to be a tradeoff somewhere. And the Canadian public is not at a stage where societally we accept building massive prison-like facilities where we isolate all of these people without expensive supports, since any treatment heavy facility would not have enough space and be extremely expensive. It would also likely receive some sort of charter challenge where the court will ban it with no alternative solution.
Mountain Man
Senior Member
Stronger enforcement and actually holding people is key. Look at the random assaults that have happened in Vancouver lately, they are almost always someone out on bail. If a guy can assault a cop, then get out the next day and go chase down and beat a tourist, something is seriously wrong. I don't know if we need more prisons or what, but the revolving door needs to be closed lol. With all the problems we are seeing these days, convincing people to pay for solutions should be easy. Maybe Carney can even spin it into our expanded defense budget somehow.
CalgaryTiger
Senior Member
Oddly our current Mayor says she'll make enforcement a priority for this election... YOU HAD FOUR YEARS! Now you're making it a priority. I'm sorry, I haven't had much against her but I can absolutely not vote for someone who changes priorities like they change their underwear. I get when the facts change you change your opinion but this has been a problem for longer than the last week.
trtcttc
Senior Member
Unfortunately that's true not just for drug use but for all crimes. In August, a 12 year old kid was charged with attempted murder, while allegedly committing that murder while on bail, and has since been released again! So he committed violent offence, granted bail, charged with attempted murder, granted bail again! Even if the goal of the justice system is rehabilitation instead of punishment (which I think most Canadians are getting fed up with), it does not help the alleged perpetrator to be released and likely exploited as the trigger man for other older criminals because he's protected by the YCJA.
We are already doing the best by spending the least, but it is insane to me that a minimum wage worker makes $120 a day ($15 x 8) while we spend $200 per prisoner per day. Frankly I, and a growing numbers of Canadians are done with these bleeding heart judges worried more about prisoner's wellbeing than law-abiding citizens.
Chinook Arch
Active Member
Downtown and the Beltline have gotten substantially worse in the past year or two. There are homeless people everywhere you go in the Beltline these days. The part that’s alarming to me isn’t the number though, it’s how aggressive they are compared to the past. Is it the type of drugs they’re on?
Anyways, I know the Beltline’s growing in population, which is good but it’s getting less nice as a neighborhood. Honestly, I’m not sure why anyone would want to live there these days.
Anyways, I know the Beltline’s growing in population, which is good but it’s getting less nice as a neighborhood. Honestly, I’m not sure why anyone would want to live there these days.
darwink
Senior Member
Compared to a decade ago, yes. Mixing stimulants and depressants to extend the high of the low while staying awake to try to protect themselves and their stuff. Plus increasingly synthetic and more effective versions of the above. And then totally different drugs too.
Then you have even worse things like drugs that are increasingly incompatible with human metabolism like xylazine. Xylazine causes increasingly large skin lesions with use, and over doses cannot be reverse with naloxone. This makes it appealing to some who feel robbed of their high when given naloxone, and if addicted they are immediately in the prior to a dose state and need to get high again. After a xylazine ‘high’ which can last 12 hours or more people often wake up confused and in unexpected situations. With the long high it is likely combined with an intense desire for opioids. Combine those two with pain from lesions, and likely progressive brain damage, and you have more potential for erratic behaviour.
Always_Biking
Senior Member
Sadly, the vibe around d downtown has changed negatively in the past couple of years. Thankfully high growth in DT and Beltline has offset the negative, but if the area stopped growing it could be vulnerable to a downward slide.
My brother was living in the Beltline in the Underwood tower with his wife and son and was enjoying it, often praising the virtues of Beltline living, but has since done a 180 and has moved. He no longer thinks the Beltline is a good place to raise a family. Sad.
My brother was living in the Beltline in the Underwood tower with his wife and son and was enjoying it, often praising the virtues of Beltline living, but has since done a 180 and has moved. He no longer thinks the Beltline is a good place to raise a family. Sad.
Red Star
Active Member
Say what you will about Mao Zedong, but he cleaned up China's opium problem very nicely.