Green Line LRT | ?m | ?s | Calgary Transit

Go Elevated or try for Underground?

  • Work with the province and go with the Elevated option

    Votes: 52 75.4%

  • Try another approach and go for Underground option

    Votes: 14 20.3%

  • Cancel it altogether

    Votes: 1 1.4%

  • Go with a BRT solution

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Total voters
    69
Bit pointless to engage on something like this. Your funding partner is not going to support the tunnel, you have to do elevated. Maybe engage with people by letting them know what is going on but Michael's Pizza doesn't know anything about building mass transit. It is disingenuous to the affected businesses and buildings to pretend like there's still a chance this isn't going to be elevated down 10th and 2nd. Loser energy from the Mayor. Challenge your design team to design the best elevated LRT they can that minimizes impact but also serves riders. As the current mayor she probably doesn't like how this has fallen on her but be a damn leader and stop being such a whiner.
 
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How is the Mayor being a 'whiner'? If anything shes being realistic with the presentation of some remaining obstacles, which were self-identified in AECOMs report.
Ignoring those and pushing the sunshine and lollipops angle, would I'd imagine, result in damage to the GL projects ultimate viabilty and penetration into the Core and hopefully beyond, in the event that those obstacles result in cost overruns or other major issues. Best to lay your cards on the table now.
The name calling of the Mayor (whom I did not vote for), detracts from what should be a serious and detailed conversation around the Green Line.

The problem lies with the half baked report that AECOM and the Provincal Government presented. Like I showed in my earlier post, elevated if done well, can be really, really good. The report showed a concrete basic, no thought to anything around it track and ugly ( my opinion) imposing stations. They could have presented it in any number of ways, taking cues from Skytrain, the DLR, even some of the planned stations on this very line ( Ramsay/Crossroads) etc, to show what this could ultimately bring to the city and be a net positive.
Unlike most on here, the majority of people will look at the images in the report and the existing stretch of elevated track on the blue line and rationally conclude, thats what they are getting.
You want to know what would have mitigated that to a degree......engagement. Thats also how you get something thats going to actually fit and be a benefit to the corridor its being placed in, engaging those on and around it.
One of the restaurants concerns was their patio....you engage with them, discuss and hey you know what, maybe we could slap some sort of screen along the trackway at that point to limit impact and hey, the restaurants patio concern is addressed.

I didnt take the article as the Mayor trying to push for an underground option but merely pointing out that there was no engagement or consultation with anyone and there are still unknowns. And yes, a 5% designed elevated option may well likely be more acurate in final projections that a 60% designed underground option but its still a 5% designed option, its not final costs or plans set in stone. So for the Minister to so boldly claim its bang on accurate and final costs will be exactly what he has said, is disingenuous to every single Albertan who pays taxes and those within the city, that would ultimately be on the hook for any overruns.

And the last point Ill make is this, its true, Michael's Pizza doesnt know anything about building Mass Transit, you know who else doesnt......Minister Dreeshen....whose background I believe is in Agriculture and US Presidential Elections.

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Gazyyc said:
How is the Mayor being a 'whiner'? If anything shes being realistic with the presentation of some remaining obstacles, which were self-identified in AECOMs report.
Ignoring those and pushing the sunshine and lollipops angle, would I'd imagine, result in damage to the GL projects ultimatle viabilty and penetration into the Core and hopefully beyond, in the event that those obstacles result in cost overruns or other major issues. Best to lay your cards on the table now.
The name calling of the Mayor (whom I did not vote for), detracts from what should be a serious and detailed conversation around the Green Line.

The problem lies with the half baked report that AECOM and the Provincal Government presented. Like I showed in my earlier post, elevated if done well, can be really, really good. The report showed a concrete basic, no thought to anything around it track and ugly ( my opinion) imposing stations. They could have presented it in any number of ways, taking cues from Skytrain, the DLR, even some of the planned stations on this very line ( Ramsay/Crossroads) etc, to show what this could ultimately bring to the city and be a net positive.
Unlike most on here, the majority of people will look at the images in the report and the existing stretch of elevated track on the blue line and rationally conclude, thats what they are getting.
You want to know what would have mitigated that to a degree......engagement. Thats also how you get something thats going to actually fit and be a benefit to the corridor its being placed in, engaging those on and around it.
One of the restaurants concerns was their patio....you engage with them, discuss and hey you know what, maybe we could slap some sort of screen along the trackway at that point to limit impact and hey, the restaurants patio concern is addressed.

I didnt take the article as the Mayor trying to push for an underground option but merely pointing out that there was no engagement or consultation with anyone and there are still unknowns. And yes, a 5% designed elevated option may well likely be more acurate in final projections that a 60% designed underground option but its still a 5% designed option, its not final costs or plans set in stone. So for the Minister to so boldly claim its bang on accurate and final costs will be exactly what he has said, is disingenuous to every single Albertan who pays taxes and those within the city, that would ultimately be on the hook for any overruns.

And the last point Ill make is this, its true, Michael's Pizza doesnt know anything about building Mass Transit, you know who else doesnt......Minister Dreeshen....whose background I believe is in Agriculture and US Presidential Elections.

​

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I'll say maybe I shouldn't call the Mayor a whiner but I just want her to be more of a doer.

Of course the 5% plan comes with a ton of unknowns and risks (cost and otherwise).

Engagement isn't the problem, as I said, it is about genuine engagement and not keeping the door open to false hope about maybe whether elevated really is best.

The mayor was dealt a tough hand by the province but she has to play the hand she is dealt. In my opinion she is still debating herself (since everyone else seems to have moved on) about whether elevated is the best. That's a fine debate, for development forums, not for the mayor whose funding partner insisted on this elevated track. The tunnel had immense risk as well this is just different risk.

And maybe I have blind hope but I really think the team working on the functional plan will do the best they can and Michael's patio won't be what it is now, but maybe it won't be so bad.

Budget is an issue, I do have doubts about doing everything within the budget but lets get to the end of 2026 when we see a functional plan and get pants'd by the Green Line again.
 
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Gazyyc said:
How is the Mayor being a 'whiner'? If anything shes being realistic with the presentation of some remaining obstacles, which were self-identified in AECOMs report.
Ignoring those and pushing the sunshine and lollipops angle, would I'd imagine, result in damage to the GL projects ultimatle viabilty and penetration into the Core and hopefully beyond, in the event that those obstacles result in cost overruns or other major issues. Best to lay your cards on the table now.
The name calling of the Mayor (whom I did not vote for), detracts from what should be a serious and detailed conversation around the Green Line.

The problem lies with the half baked report that AECOM and the Provincal Government presented. Like I showed in my earlier post, elevated if done well, can be really, really good. The report showed a concrete basic, no thought to anything around it track and ugly ( my opinion) imposing stations. They could have presented it in any number of ways, taking cues from Skytrain, the DLR, even some of the planned stations on this very line ( Ramsay/Crossroads) etc, to show what this could ultimately bring to the city and be a net positive.
Unlike most on here, the majority of people will look at the images in the report and the existing stretch of elevated track on the blue line and rationally conclude, thats what they are getting.
You want to know what would have mitigated that to a degree......engagement. Thats also how you get something thats going to actually fit and be a benefit to the corridor its being placed in, engaging those on and around it.
One of the restaurants concerns was their patio....you engage with them, discuss and hey you know what, maybe we could slap some sort of screen along the trackway at that point to limit impact and hey, the restaurants patio concern is addressed.

I didnt take the article as the Mayor trying to push for an underground option but merely pointing out that there was no engagement or consultation with anyone and there are still unknowns. And yes, a 5% designed elevated option may well likely be more acurate in final projections that a 60% designed underground option but its still a 5% designed option, its not final costs or plans set in stone. So for the Minister to so boldly claim its bang on accurate and final costs will be exactly what he has said, is disingenuous to every single Albertan who pays taxes and those within the city, that would ultimately be on the hook for any overruns.

And the last point Ill make is this, its true, Michael's Pizza doesnt know anything about building Mass Transit, you know who else doesnt......Minister Dreeshen....whose background I believe is in Agriculture and US Presidential Elections.

​

Click to expand...
It just felt a little tone deaf to talk about engagement when I think most people in the city just want to see construction actually start, and leave the debate around the downtown portion for a later date.

I do think the mayor has injected a lot of personal feelings towards elevated transit that is not warranted. Having just came back from Tokyo, there's tons of elevated trains through the heart of the city, with residents and businesses less than 10m away. 7th Ave is a dead zone not because street-level transit and businesses cannot co-exist (literally the case everywhere in Europe), but we haven't made the investments necessary because Stephen Ave is half a block over and is already a pedestrian-only road and we're investing in streetscapes there.
 
I think she had to release something, maybe not as much and without the prop restaurant but something had to be be out to temper/balance expectations off the back of Dreeshen's one-man show press release and timelines.
It should have been a short, we are looking into things still, then a huge puff piece about Shepherd to Vic Park for an easy win.



And 7th Ave is such a non-comparable, like you said, to 10th in its base function and corresponding design.
 
We know one thing, Gondek will get Michael's vote in October.

Hope those on here who go by where the Green Line is going can keep us updated on where they start to work first. I assume Shepard but maybe not.
 
doughflow said:
Tone deaf? Pretty much single business along this new elevated route is pissed and is demanding to be engaged.
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There's nothing to engage them on. It is a 5% design that has a long list of to dos. Reasonably the businesses are asking, what does this mean for me? The answer right now, is the city doesn't now. Utilities, land acquisitions for the stations and what ever else a elevated track requires for land, a CPKC air rights deal. That's what the mayor needs to tell them, "we need to do some work to wrap our heads around this alignment, we will get back to you once we have digested what we're dealing with."
 
doughflow said:
Tone deaf? Pretty much single business along this new elevated route is pissed and is demanding to be engaged.
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Oh no!

The incredibly beautiful and walkable 10th Avenue will be completely ruined for those poor businesses. The view of the 1960's concrete parkade might be obstructed. Plus...you could have 20,000 - 40,000 C-train passengers per day having easy access to businesses that could drive away the regular customers from the Mustard Seed.
 
trtcttc said:
It just felt a little tone deaf to talk about engagement when I think most people in the city just want to see construction actually start, and leave the debate around the downtown portion for a later date.

I do think the mayor has injected a lot of personal feelings towards elevated transit that is not warranted. Having just came back from Tokyo, there's tons of elevated trains through the heart of the city, with residents and businesses less than 10m away. 7th Ave is a dead zone not because street-level transit and businesses cannot co-exist (literally the case everywhere in Europe), but we haven't made the investments necessary because Stephen Ave is half a block over and is already a pedestrian-only road and we're investing in streetscapes there.
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Heading there myself in a few months, and looking forward to checking out those elevated lines. I'll probably ride the whole loop of the Yamanote line, just for the sight seeing.
 
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