Calgary Transit

[Surrealplaces]

Stampede proper attendance is over a million, (plus six figures for the parade, and lots of people for other events) and someone who takes the train to the grounds is counted twice; once on the way there and once on the way home. In a way, I'm surprised the Stampede bump is only a million. I wouldn't be surprised if counting techniques are less accurate with the crush crowds at Stampede time and there's a bit of an undercount.

That's kind of what I figured. With such huge attendance from things like the grounds, and other events, it has to boost the numbers a lot. I see huge crowds of people getting on downtown and riding to the grounds, and I wonder how many actually paid lol.

 

[lemongrab]

Is that because homeless people are now factoring into the LRT counts. J/K

Nice to see such a big bounce back. One thing interesting, is every year there's a huge discrepancy between July and August (example shown in red box). Most years the difference is around 1M people. I'm assuming it's because the Stampede does big numbers in July?

View attachment 460746

I can see how July might have a similar regular commuter decrease like August, but obviously offset by Stampede. I'm more curious why Sept-Nov seem to be higher than the other 'normal' months (March-April)?

I could see December dropping based on holidays; Feb simply has fewer days, May/June would have fewer post-secondary riders, but March and April should be fairly normal? I guess spring break is in there somewhere...

 

[UrbanWarrior]

I have noticed that CPS has really stepped up policing the CTrain and stations. Both of the most recent times I went to physio/acupuncture up by North Hill, once we got back into downtown there were cops checking the cars. I mean, it is needed nowadays so I'm glad. Noticeably less gross on board too. Station announcements also now include something along the line of "There is no loitering permitted on Calgary Transit property. Please leave the station immediately." When I heard that, I was like oh shit.

I'm glad to see something is being done, honestly. As I have made clear, I don't condemn the unhoused and support all efforts to aid them. Though the people - housed and unhoused - causing trouble, especially on public transit, seriously need to be dealt with. Smoking crack on trains? Like wtf. Get out of here and grow up you ignorant sack of sh*t. There are innumerable places elsewhere to do that.

 

[CBBarnett]

Is that because homeless people are now factoring into the LRT counts. J/K

Nice to see such a big bounce back. One thing interesting, is every year there's a huge discrepancy between July and August (example shown in red box). Most years the difference is around 1M people. I'm assuming it's because the Stampede does big numbers in July?

View attachment 460746

The changes in frequency are also a likely factor in the year-to-year trend line - progressive service quality and capacity increases until 2015, then service declines and stagnation that aligned with the energy sector downturn - the cuts in service impacted the LRT but also the bus system that feeds it.

Would like to see this boardings graph overlayed with downtown employment. There's obviously some relationship between downtown office population and transit usage, but it also seems much over-hyped one IMO, and usually seems to be brought out to justify service cuts rather than supported by the data. Transit usage began to rebuild again after stagnating in 2015. There's a huge portion of ridership that is not downtown office workers and are less impacted by office usage trends.

Also highlights we need to keep pushing for TOD and increasing amenities around the stations - growth in population is outpacing growth in transit substantially since the early 2010s (or earlier). We need far more of that growth to be located where the existing high quality service already is in place.

 

[Surrealplaces]

Also highlights we need to keep pushing for TOD and increasing amenities around the stations - growth in population is outpacing growth in transit substantially since the early 2010s (or earlier). We need far more of that growth to be located where the existing high quality service already is in place.

100% agree. Rather than having to spend more money extending the lines, leverage what we already have.

 

[CBBarnett]

I have noticed that CPS has really stepped up policing the CTrain and stations. Both of the most recent times I went to physio/acupuncture up by North Hill, once we got back into downtown there were cops checking the cars. I mean, it is needed nowadays so I'm glad. Noticeably less gross on board too. Station announcements also now include something along the line of "There is no loitering permitted on Calgary Transit property. Please leave the station immediately." When I heard that, I was like oh shit.

I'm glad to see something is being done, honestly. As I have made clear, I don't condemn the unhoused and support all efforts to aid them. Though the people - housed and unhoused - causing trouble, especially on public transit, seriously need to be dealt with. Smoking crack on trains? Like wtf. Get out of here and grow up you ignorant sack of sh*t. There are innumerable places elsewhere to do that.

I have noticed increased attention as well - good to see.

As an aside, I also wonder about how service frequency effects the perception of safety and anti-social behaviour transit - if we only have 4 trains an hour, all activity is concentrated in those 4 trains - this was the frequency outside of rush-hour from 2019 - 2022 December. Rush hour was about 6-8 trains a hour during this period.

As of the service increase in January 2023, the minimum is 6 trains an hour for the majority of the day, and 10 - 12 trains during rush hours. My hypothesis makes the bold assumption that the amount of drugs people do on transit is not directly correlated with number of trains in service, therefore the "drug use per train" ratio has decreased.

Better service also attracts more ridership so as a not-anti social rider your "drug use per train" and "drug use per not anti-social rider" ratios has likely has decreased too - all of a sudden the perception of safety has changed, even though total drugs on transit may have not

I am being cheeky here but trying to prove a point - simple arguments about drugs, homelessness and anti-social behaviour often look for simple solutions. Too many people sleeping on park benches? Let's remove the benches! Perhaps part of the perception side of the issue is that we just don't have enough benches (fully acknowledging there's real enforcement and social health issues that need addressing too).

 

[CalgaryTiger]

Also highlights we need to keep pushing for TOD and increasing amenities around the stations - growth in population is outpacing growth in transit substantially since the early 2010s (or earlier). We need far more of that growth to be located where the existing high quality service already is in place.

Tying this into the argument I made about the Commonwealth Games, Cavalry FC, and Surge basketball... It is vital that these venues and venues like them be built near transit.

I can guarantee you Cavalry FC attendance suffers from not being walking distance from a train line, even if the facility costs are low because the Southern's had Spruce Meadows. Least they have buses that shuttle people to and from Somerset.

Attendance to Surge basketball will suffer by not being anywhere near the train or even a bus for that matter. Look at the travel times to Winsport from South Calgary 1.5 hours, that's crazy!

If they do anything for the commonwealth games I really hope they think about TOD.

TOD should be about housing but you can do so much more than housing.

 

[badc0ffee]

Look at the travel times to Winsport from South Calgary 1.5 hours, that's crazy!

There should really be a bus that goes from Crowfoot to Bowness to the east end of Na'a Drive to WinSport, and then either turns right back around there, or continues west to Crestmont. The 40 almost does this, but it says on the wrong side of 16th (the side already served by the 1). The 408 does part of this, but it also serves some probably zero-demand areas like Valley Ridge, and goes east on 16th for a good stretch, again within spitting distance of the 1.

We really need to simplify our bus routes.

 

[UrbanWarrior]

Oh wow a new one I just heard is “all loiterers please leave immediately. Officers have been dispatched. You will be removed.” at Bridgeland Station. Yowza! My eyes literally widened.

 

[Atticus]

Oh wow a new one I just heard is “all loiterers please leave immediately. Officers have been dispatched. You will be removed.” at Bridgeland Station. Yowza! My eyes literally widened.

It’s good to see the city is finally taking the issue seriously. Whatever we think the solution is to solving homeless issues, I think we can all agree it’s not the C-Train.

 

[YourBoy007]

Calgary Transit was on Undercover Boss 10 years ago

 

[BKha]

Turnstiles won't do a thing.

The worst incident I saw one of the most recent times I took the train was someone who at City Hall yelled across from the south platform to someone (looked to me to be a random dude) on the north platform, then climbed down onto the tracks and walked across and climbed up onto the other platform to talk to them, then came back. This is not the first time I've seen someone climb down onto the tracks or back up onto the platform from the tracks. It's not common, but the people I've seen doing it seem to be some of the worst cases.

So how would a turnstile even prevent this? You can walk down the tracks 30 feet, and climb onto the platform and ignore them. (and they can also be jumped easily enough). Certainly that's not something very many people would do, but none of the other problems caused by people on C-train platforms are things that very many people do. Turnstiles can only theoretically work in situations where the only access to the platform is through the station, that is, not downtown Calgary. Until we bury the downtown LRT, we can't have restricted access to the platforms. We can spend millions on turnstiles and not have restricted access, or spend the money on service or policing or helping people and not have restricted access.

Maybe they wouldn't but I would like to see some data out there that show the differences. I have family in Vancouver and they say the turnstiles made a difference when Vancouver added them. It's only their perception, but maybe it does help.

 

[darwink]

Maybe they wouldn't but I would like to see some data out there that show the differences. I have family in Vancouver and they say the turnstiles made a difference when Vancouver added them. It's only their perception, but maybe it does help.

It wouldn't be only the turnstiles, but perhaps the attitude change that a huge capital expenditure had on enforcement. A realization/culture change that "oh, maybe we should enforce, at all!". I believe Vancouver had higher than Calgary fare evasion.

Turnstiles don't work on their own. If they did, New York wouldn't have fare evasion. All non-manned entrances have full height barriers yet fare evasion is high.

 

[lemongrab]

It wouldn't be only the turnstiles, but perhaps the attitude change that a huge capital expenditure had on enforcement. A realization/culture change that "oh, maybe we should enforce, at all!". I believe Vancouver had higher than Calgary fare evasion.

Turnstiles don't work on their own. If they did, New York wouldn't have fare evasion. All non-manned entrances have full height barriers yet fare evasion is high.

On my last trip to NYC I think I road the subway twice, and have 2 main memories:
- the dude in front of me jumping over the turnstile
- a dude pissing into a trash can within the fare zone

Of course NYC gonna NYC, but there is nothing magic about barriers.

 

[Tarsus]

Turnstiles would help, the question is, would they help enough to be worth the money?
In all cities, where they have turnstiles, there are always people who jump them, or get through somehow, but it would reduce the number of people who do, and also make it easier for security to control those who do get through.
That said, this only works only if there is increased security on top of the turnstiles. I’ve spent a lot of time time using the London underground system and rarely, if ever saw homeless people past the point of the Turnstiles., but I also noticed there were a fair amount of security officers present.
With a system that busy, it’s easier to deploy extra security people at the stations.